Evinrude Model A? RBM – Help needed.

[ausob-collector]

quote :

So which 1914 model will you have???

“A” ??????

or

“B” ?????

Richard,
I have recently talked to Spiro and his main focus is to try and figure out if this RBM is more likely to be a model A or B originally; he is more than happy to purchase the correct parts either way to make the motor correct for whichever model it turns out to be.

It seems that the brass unplated flywheel and the design of the lettering on the flywheel may provide a clue – also maybe the type of carburetor and number of rings on the piston?

So far, we know that either –
a) It is a model A motor with a model B fuel tank
b) it is a model B with the wrong gearbox…

Was there an option of purchasing a Model A RBM with or without a flywheel magneto? And the same for a model B?

Cheers
BP

[RICHARD A. WHITE]

My money is on being a Model "B", now here is why.
Those gear cases wear out quickly, especially without a careful eye on maintenance, but the ID tag rarely wears out…
Odds are the original gear case was swapped out with whatever was available. No one alive will ever be able to 100% positively tell you that it was one or the other when it was first made. Going with the Model "B" appears to be the easiest and probably, most likely correct.
Flywheel mags first introduced:
"2. Flywheel Magneto available on all 1914-28 models"

As taken from the document previously provided.

Could the tank have been taken off of a "B" model and placed on an "A" model motor? Umm yeah, but it would be impossible to prove or disprove that.
Comes down to which model 1914 does he want, he can go either "A" or "B" . One option will be cheaper than the other and both, if done right, will be correct.

http://www.richardsoutboardtools.com
classicomctools@gmail.com

[kees]

quote Richard A. White:

Comes down to which model 1914 does he want, he can go either "A" or "B" . One option will be cheaper than the other and both, if done right, will be correct.

.
all information I have seen,
here, when searching on the web,
seen in the "Misc.Boat motor model Year Lookup Guide" ( recently found online )
also the Model / Year guide from the AOMCI
and the info in Arlan Carter book ( with old ads and a year guide list )
shows, that 1915 was the first year with the "Automatic Reverse"

so what do you need more?
correct tank, flywheel , ID plate….

I put my money on the year 1914 model B

but….as always, exceptions are possible
because …all what we think to know is based on what is ever told to us 😉
( amen )
.

[kees]

quote AusF233:

Kees, Can I ask where you got that information ie as there are a many pictures of supposedly earlier Evinrude RBM’s with reversing gear-foot on the internet.

well , on the first question,
here on this forum,
internet search,
the book , "The American Rowboat motor" by Arlan Carter
save and collect photos from Ebay ( f.e. )
I must say that not all what people offer on Ebay has the correct info, often they mention a production
year based on what they see on the ID plate, but that’s the patent year

Flywheel does not comprise magnets (unless they’re very dead), and has the hole filled where the starting knob would have been. The lack of magnets, implies battery ignition model.

when it would be an original battery ignition model one,
It is more likely that they should had
used the flywheel with the four holes, like the 1913 model

[ausob-collector]

quote :

by kees » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:15 am

when it would be an original battery ignition model one,
It is more likely that they should had
used the flywheel with the four holes, like the 1913 model

Kees,
Just to clarify, when you say original battery ignition, I take it that you mean the battery and buzz coil ignition arrangement?
Didn’t some of the Evinrude RBM’s with the flywheel magneto need a battery also connected up to help power the coil? I only say this as my 1915 RBM has a post on the original transom bracket to act as a ground for the battery…

quote :

by Richard A. White » Tue May 31, 2016 8:43 pm

My money is on being a Model “B”, now here is why.
Those gear cases wear out quickly, especially without a careful eye on maintenance, but the ID tag rarely wears out…

Richard,
That is a very good point you made with the gearbox – for my RBM, I know that Doug Penn is sending me over gearbox parts that need work i.e. gearbox endcap (bushing is worn) so it is a very big possibility that the gearbox could have been replaced.

After talking to Spiro yesterday, it seems that one of the relatives of the seller Spiro purchased the RBM from brought this motor back with him after the end of WW1, in which this person was an aviation mechanic.
Since then, the motor has been in the family in Tasmania.

Something else to consider is that there is less than 12 Evinrude RBM’s of various ages in the Australasian part of the world known about – Tasmania is a small place and this RBM is the first one that has popped up in Tassie as far as both my research and others research points to.
Would there have been another parts motor there? Would it have been easier to change over a fuel tank or a gearbox?
There has been and will be a lot of "if’s" with this RBM…

Does anyone have a picture of a Model B flywheel from 1914? Would they be kind enough to post that picture please?

Cheers
BP

[ausob-collector]

OK… what happened there? "PM T2" as not an AOMCI member posted a large topic I was reading about that concerned this motor.
Admins not sure about that…

Cheers
BP

[ausf233]

Thank you guys, I sincerely appreciate your input and the time you have all invested here.

Kees, like you I cannot find any adverts that discuss “Automatic Reversing” prior to 1915. But as you know it was not uncommon for Evinrude to introduce new features during any calendar year and hence it is possible that some reversing units did make it to market in the latter part of 1914.

I think what we all need to be clear on is the differences between Model A and Model B. Maybe that’s where we need to start!

The ‘pitch’ from the above posts suggests that all motors designated Model A have a Auto-reversing gearfoot and that all motors designated Model B have a battery ignition. The spreadsheet however uses the word usually in place of all. Big difference! I ‘suspect’ this may be because Evinrude (whilst still in its infancy really) may have been prepared to option motors to satisfy individual customer order.

From Jack Craibs video of early Evinrude adverts, we can see that a) the flywheel magneto was introduced in 1914 and b) it’s main benefit was eliminating the need to carry 15-20lbs of batteries. To that end, one would think that when we talk battery ignition models, we are talking up to 1913 and more specifically about motors that needed an external battery and buzz coil to operate. Is this correct?

If correct, wouldn’t that also not imply that Model B was released before Model A (kind strange when you think about that) and wouldn’t also imply that the need for a Model B did not exist much beyond introduction of the flywheel magneto. Is there a known run out date for the Model B?

Much of I’ve said in this post is intended to get people thinking, rather than to put across a particular point of view. Yes, I do have 40 odd vintage outboards in my collection, but this is my first Evinrude RBM and to that end, I want to learn from you guys as much as I possibly can about it.

With all that said, what I plan to do over the course of the next few days is take more photos, more measurements, compare against the information on the spread-sheet and post what I find here for your further consideration.

In the meantime, any and all additional input from you is most welcome.

Thanks again for your assistance thus far.

Regards,
AusF233

PS: Thanks Boyd, I will pm T2. From what you say his post contained lots of good information, so it’s a shame to see it gone!

[kees]

quote AusF233:

The ‘pitch’ from the above posts suggests that all motors designated Model A have a Auto-reversing gearfoot and that all motors designated Model B have a battery ignition.

now you go in high speed and miss the corner

nobody told here that all " B" models have a battery ignition
that is absolute not true
1913 for sure and 1914 optional

[ausob-collector]

quote :

nobody told here that all” model B” have a battery ignition
that is absolute not true

Kees is right…

I just had a look at the spreadsheet and it does state that model B usually designates battery ignition motors; as you have said yourself S, usually is the key word.

If I could play the devils advocate for a moment S, would you be able to point out where and who may have stated that all model B’s have battery ignition?

Cheers
BP

[ausf233]

Read what I’ve said in context guys, and maybe read again some of the previous posts. Then ask yourselves if people not well versed on RBM’s may get that impression.

There were no accusations on my part. I’m grateful for all help provided thus far.

Note also that it was me who pointed out the wording used in the spreadsheet. This was to highlight the possibility of non-standard equipment leaving the factory.

All that aside, some pertinant questions were asked. I would have thought putting answers to those would be helpful to all.

Regards

[Author]

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