Home Forum Ask A Member 1930 fold light coil replacement

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  • #303958
    stanley
    Participant

      US Member

      I have had this motor for quite a while and have finally begun work on it.When this motor was purchased it was complete but lacked it’s coil,only the laminates remained.I have adapted two OMC universal coils and have them and the original laminates mounted.Now the problem;it looks like the spark is produced when the points close rather than when they open like the typical OMC magneto.Do all of the wires coming from the coils connect to the condenser,points and ground the same way they would on a typical OMC mag plate?

      #303970
      Waunnaboat
      Participant

        US Junior Member

        when the two points connect, that should be when you have spark, if I am reading it correctly(I actually just dug into one 2 weeks ago).  Draw a diagram of what you are depicting?  if I remember right, the two wires from the coil and the condenser all connect on that little metal bit that sticks up from the mag plate, but I could be wrong.

         

        just to reiterate, if the two points are connected and have continuity then that should be when the spark is.   try it on the motor and see if the spark happens when the pistons are towards the spark plug side of the cylinder if you are unsure.  Otherwise, a diagram of your current wiring might help if that does not work.

        "Outboards seem to multiply exponentially..........I find that for every finished project, there are two more waiting to be completed."

        #303979
        Tubs
        Participant
          I used to believe that was the case. Below are comments from a member that has passed. Frank tried to dumb it down for people like me so I could understand it, but I still don’t get it.  Maybe you will be able to. 

          There are a lot of things happening every time it produces a spark, and it is hard to explain it all in terms understandable to a novice. In fact, I get some more grey hairs every time I think about it. And I have a diploma that says I am a TV repairman (Not). But to share a grey hair, when the magneto points open, electrons flow into the capacitor and the voltage across the capacitor increases with time It is mighty fast, but not instant. When the time is up, the electrons flow back out in the opposite direction in series with the coil. It is that reversal in direction that induces a spark voltage in the secondary winding. A way too big (mfd) capacitor will not charge up to as high a voltage in the time available as would a small capacitor. Also, a leaky capacitor loses energy through the leak just as a leaky bucket takes longer to fill with water.

          As I tried to say, the capacitor charges up in one direction, then discharges in the opposite direction, in series with the coil. Several factors combine to affect the voltage that it charges up to. A higher charge voltage in series with the coil voltage creates a higher reverse current through the coil, which results in a higher AVAILABLE spark voltage. AVAILABLE emphasized because the actual spark voltage only rises till it jumps the plug gap. Then it’s all over till next time. In other words, the actual spark voltage is rarely the maximum it can produce. BUT if it it cannot produce enough to jump the gap reliably, you get no-start, hard start, missing, etc etc.

          A "Boathouse Repair" is one thats done without having tools or the skills to do it properly.

          #303980
          RICHARD A. WHITE
          Participant

            Lifetime Member

            Let’s muddy the water a bit more.
            Atwater-Kent timers make spark when the points close….
            OMC points from the Universal Magneto make spark when the points open.

            Gorsh this is fun…lol

            http://www.richardsoutboardtools.com
            classicomctools@gmail.com

            #303982
            Tubs
            Participant
              Even though the timer points are normally open, as I read Franks explanation, both would be the same as far as making a spark.  Battery charges the condenser when the points close. Energy is released when the points open. Anybody?
               

              A "Boathouse Repair" is one thats done without having tools or the skills to do it properly.

              #303985
              stanley
              Participant

                US Member

                Richard has accurately stated my dilemma.I think it should be possible to use the OMC universal coils,I just haven’t gotten spark yet.Tubs,thanks for posting Franks article maybe using it as a guide I can figure it out.

                #303986
                RICHARD A. WHITE
                Participant

                  Lifetime Member

                  Snap a pic of what you have so far…

                  http://www.richardsoutboardtools.com
                  classicomctools@gmail.com

                  #303988
                  stanley
                  Participant

                    US Member

                    This is not permanent and it is crude but everything checks out with meter and testers.Coil wires are run to condenser,points and ground like you would on a OMC using these coils.The primaries are spliced before going to points.

                    #303990
                    JACQUES
                    Participant

                      reading up m.Mohat articles on the magic of magneto and phase maker ignition may shed some light.

                      Magazine Articles | Western Reserve Chapter

                      Phase maker ignition ( like one version of Mercs)  fires by “MAKING” the points close   so a storage capacitor that was previously charged up   is allowed to suddenly dumps  into the coil to fire it.

                      Conventional OMC  type ignition allows  the  primary coil  and lamintes to load up  like an electromagnet by induce current  from the  effect of magnetism  passing by the laminates (just like a pedal bike  magneto)

                      but when points OPEN…

                      the coil tries to mainting itself magnetized but can’t because it has lost the ground referrence  due to  the  points gap.

                      The collapse  of the magnetized field  induces a reverse voltage (counter EMF)  which tends to rejoin ground  via the points   but ends up in the condenser which is there to protect the points from excess arcs  that burn the surfaces.

                      At the same time,  the collapsing primary current using the condensers as a storage bin…. induces a voltage in the secondary winding (with  100-200 times the winding loops ) and it also is looking  for a ground and  finds one  by jumping the sparkplug gap. !

                      SO.. one system  dumps a load of electrons previously  created and stored   like gunpowder  while the OMC  method  dumps electrons  “created”   on the spot by magnetism collapsing.

                      my understanding anyway .. somebody surely has something else in mind  🙂

                       

                      Joining AOMCI has priviledges 🙂

                      #303991
                      stanley
                      Participant

                        US Member

                        The Mohat article is certainly food for thought.I guess it all boils done to whether OMC coils can be used in a phase maker magneto and how do they differ?

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