Topic: 1956 Oliver 5.5 hp won’t start – Antique Outboard Motor Club,Inc

This topic has 36 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 3 months ago by jerry-ahrens.

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September 28, 2016 at 4:51 pm #5376
Buccaneer
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After spending way too much on this Oliver, new Scintilla coils,
prop shaft, bearings, seals, impeller, diaphragm material, etc.,
today came the long awaited day…. to see if it runs.
It does NOT, lol.
Occasionally I get a loud snort / whistle out of the exhaust
relief ports above the water line. Sounds like when an engine
is timed too late and fires with an exhaust valve open.
My first thought (even though I marked the coils) was
that I had the coil wires switched. Switching the wires
did nothing, except is ceased to snort anymore.

If I remember correctly, when I checked the compression
before starting to work on it, it had around 83 psi on
both cylinders. I did not open the power head, only worked
on carburation, ignition, and lower unit.

Normally I wouldn’t throw so much money into such a sad
looking outboard, but I didn’t know if I’d ever come across another
for $50!
The magneto plate / carburetor cam bracket had been broken
and welded up. I think it’s "off", (ignition and throttle position out
of sync) and there appears to be no adjustment. The throttle
appears to be way too far open where (I presume) the mag plate
should be in "Start" position.
While trying to start it, I tried all different mag / throttle positions.

Questions – Does anyone think the problem could be as simple
as the throttle too far open in start position?

I can feel gas flowing into the carb while pumping the bulb,
and stop when the float needle shuts off.

Photos show throttle in FAST, START?, Mag Halfway, and STOP

Ideas appreciated, Thanks!

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September 28, 2016 at 4:59 pm #44853
Doug Wilson
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make sure you have spark on both cyl and the plugs are wet. If you squirt some fuel in the cylinders does it fire? I had a KE7 merc and WG7 wizard that would occasionally fire like that. In both cases the crank shaft seals were leaking replacing the upper and lower seals solved it was pulling in air instead of fuel.

Doug

how is it motors multiply when the garage lights get
turned off?
September 28, 2016 at 5:14 pm #44854
amuller
Participant
It looks hard to say about the throttle cam without a good one to compare it with. Is there a witness mark on the cam corresponding to the beginning of throttle opening?

Not to be insultingly obvious, but is the flywheel key in place? Does it have a reasonable spark in both cylinders? Choke closing? Are the cylinders/plugs wetting with fuel mix?

I am not familiar with these motors, but the crankshaft seals might be an issue as suggested. Or the reed valves.

Carry on! You will get there.
September 28, 2016 at 5:18 pm #44855
outbdnut2
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Throttle too far open shouldn’t be a problem because several old motors I’ve had that don’t want to start, do start if I open the throttle all the way. Now on some carbs, it’s possible if the linkage is not right to have the throttle plate in the carb move past wide open and start to shut again – take that muffler off the front of the carb and look into the carb throat as you move the throttle and see if the throttle plate is full open at full throttle.
–
But before you go taking things apart, do the simple checks first if you haven’t already; like ddwilson suggested, check for spark. If you have spark, next thing I’d do is "cheat" by using a shot of automotive starting spray (ether).
Dave
September 28, 2016 at 7:51 pm #44859
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Spark was great after installing the new coils and condensers, but couldn’t
see diddly out in the sunlight today. I pulled the reed block when I had the
carb off, and installed a new O-ring. Suppose that could be an issue.
I played with the the throttle after putting the carb on. It does open all the
way, but just before full mag advance, then closes a little at full advance.
That’s part of the reason I think the bracket was welded out of whack.
I did try spraying a shot of ether in the silencer, but most shot out the
other end. It only "farted" like before. Don’t like using ether, but the
bursitis in both shoulders said "Do it".
No witness marks on the cam.
Flywheel key installed 🙂
I used a dial indicator in the cylinders to set the points. Done this on
several outboards, and it does seem to make them idle nice.
No crank seals on this engine.
Using 16:1 gas mix
Tried starting once on the stand (to reduce back pressure) in case
of bad crank bearings. Didn’t make a difference.
The plugs were not as wet as I thought they should be, but harder
to tell on brand new plugs. I thought that the throttle
might be open too far for starting position, and not having
the correct venturi velocity to draw the fuel out of the bowl.
The throttle arm (that rides on the cam) is adjustable on the
throttle shaft. I will try tomorrow to set it so the throttle is
just opening at 2/3 rd mag advance and see it that makes a difference.
Tried that when initially setting it up, but then the throttle wouldn’t
open all the way at full advance.
Thanks for the ideas,
Will play more tomorrow.

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September 28, 2016 at 9:27 pm #44862
jerry-ahrens
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The small skinny dip tube for the low speed fuel circuit can plug easily on those carbs. You probably know this already, but it’s under the brass pipe plug on top of the carburetor. if I remember right [after working on my Chris craft Commander] there is a small fiber washer that seals under the head of this brass dip tube… maybe this fell out? Second, maybe you should go back and set the points with a feeler gauge? The gap setting should be stamped on the mag plate. I can’t remember the spec at the moment. Maybe your gap setting is way off, may be wrong? Your compression I believe is fine. Those Oliver’s are great running motors. i’m sure you will find the trouble, don’t give up!
September 28, 2016 at 11:14 pm #44871
frankr
Participant
Don’t know if this applies or not, but after spending way too many hours on a Chris Craft cousin of this, I finally discovered that if the carburetor nuts are not tightened enough, it doesn’t moosh the reed plate o-ring enough to press the reed plate all the way in. And if not pressed all the way in, air/fuel mix passes back and forth between the upper and lower crankcase sections, and it runs poorly, or not at all. And along the same line of thought, you have the correct o-ring, right?
September 28, 2016 at 11:26 pm #44875
Buccaneer
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US Member
Jerry, tomorrow came early, so I went back out in the garage!
I squirted a little gas in a spark plug hole, and it fired a beat
or two that sounded promising. Therefore, I pulled the carb
back off, printed off the carb diagram. Not sure if there’s a fiber
washer under the dip tube. I don’t remember one on the diagram.
I pulled out the welsh plug, which I didn’t do before as I had
no replacement. It was clean as a whistle in there, neither
hole into the carb throat plugged.
The "low" speed adjustment screw is the type that you "turn in"
to make richer. The diagram shows a washer on each side of
the spring on this needle. I had none, so added two fiber
washers. Perhaps the needle was too far open, or sucking
a little air around the threads.
With the carb still off, I put my thumb over the carb port,
and rocked the flywheel back and forth and over on compression,
and I’ll be darned if it didn’t fire on me! Glad all my fingers
are still accounted for.
I’m not sure what’s wrong yet, but it’s looking more promising.
I’ll report back tomorrow!
Thanks again.

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September 29, 2016 at 3:23 pm #44935
Buccaneer
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US Member
Frank, I replaced that O-ring from my O-ring kit, but
it seemed thick enough, but it could be suspect.
There was a tiny red gasket of sorts down in the low speed
dip tube bore. It came out with the tube this morning,
and it looked in sad shape, so I made a new one.
That was a chore itself, 3/16 OD and 1/16" ID.
Used a tiny piece of some old thick diaphragm material.
After the JB weld dries, I can put the Welch plug back
in the carb and try again. JB Weld to fill the hole I drilled
in the plug to pry it out of the carb!
Must look someday to see if one can buy a kit with tiny
Welch plugs.

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September 29, 2016 at 4:05 pm #44937
Mumbles
Participant
You can purchase Welch plugs and other handy small items from these guys:

http://www.hubbardspring.com/all-catego … sion-plugs
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