Topic: 1959 Elgin 12 hp (West Bend) carb issue – Antique Outboard Motor Club,Inc

This topic has 23 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 9 months ago by Buccaneer.

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September 7, 2023 at 2:33 pm #280306
Buccaneer
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First time I’ve had this one running since purchase in August.
My happiness dwindled after I shut the camera off and noticed gas bubbling out the carb vent.
When I unplugged the fuel tank hose connector, gas started “blowing” out the vent.
Why would it do this?

When I had the carb apart, I blew into the carb inlet with the carb inverted,
and the float needle seem to be working okay.

I never had the fuel pump apart, but it appears to be the same as the 7.5 hp
Elgin, and it just has a simple diaphragm with two “reed” type check valves.

The only “non original” thing introduced into the fuel system, was an OMC
tank hose connector I installed, as I don’t have an Elgin connector.

Can the problem be anything other than the float needle not seating?

Can’t get at the one carb nut without removing the starter….. not happy, lol.

VIDEO…….
https://youtu.be/szEqmAW75WA

Carb Vent

OMC connector

Prepare to be boarded!
September 7, 2023 at 2:47 pm #280309
John Gragg
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US Member
Rookie idea here, only comes to mind because of a repair I will soon be making on my air compressor. Any chance you have an intake (I’m going to call it a valve, it’s actually a Reed, right?) valve hanging open or partially open?

Would that cause back-pressure through the intake and into the carb?

No idea how the fuel pumps work on outboards so I’m lost there.

Good luck.

John Gragg
RIverside, CA

Just starting in the hobby, please be patient.

48 Sea King 5hp GG9014A
49 Sea King 5hp GG9014A
48 Johnson TD20
49 Johnson TD20
54 Johnson QD15
55 Johnson CD12
57 Johnson RJE-19M
57 Johnson RDE-19
September 7, 2023 at 4:47 pm #280313
Buccaneer
Participant
US Member
John, a good idea, but I doubt it would have been running as good
as it was if a reed valve was afoul……… then again, I’m open to anything!

Prepare to be boarded!
September 7, 2023 at 5:13 pm #280315
John Gragg
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The only reason I came up with this idea, is my air compressor started puffing air out the air intake (air filter intake pipe). It basically stopped compressing and adding air to the tank, and made a ‘puffing’ sound. A bit of research and I find out the compressor uses a set of cylindrical valves to control air intake and exhaust (to the tank). It seems I have a bad intake, that works up until a certain pressure, then fails and allows air back through the intake.

That said, I completely agree that if it is running well I am probably way off. Must be a fuel pump issue. Gonna follow this thread until you figure it out and learn something along the way.

Best Regards,

John Gragg
RIverside, CA

Just starting in the hobby, please be patient.

48 Sea King 5hp GG9014A
49 Sea King 5hp GG9014A
48 Johnson TD20
49 Johnson TD20
54 Johnson QD15
55 Johnson CD12
57 Johnson RJE-19M
57 Johnson RDE-19
September 8, 2023 at 2:55 pm #280355
Buccaneer
Participant
US Member
Due to the issue yesterday with gas blowing out the carb vent hole,
I replaced the needle and seat with a NOS one that was labeled for a
1950 Evinrude 14 hp. Looked identical and fit identical to what was
in the MD 89C Tillotson. It passed the barrel test in this video with
flying colors. ……. not so much on the lake test soon after…..
started blowing gas out the vent. No idea what to do now.
Any ideas?

Barrel Test

https://youtu.be/hKTqSksTpcw

Lake Test ….. grrrrr

https://youtu.be/ArtRz7cpCAw

Prepare to be boarded!
September 8, 2023 at 6:13 pm #280361
Buccaneer
Participant
US Member
I took the carb back apart. Donned my optivisors and looked at
what I believed to be a new needle and seat. If it was, it had a
dubious grind at the factory. Appeared to be some tiny spiral
grooves in the tip.
I got out my valve grinding compound and lapped both sets of
valves and seats. My compound is a little on the course side,
so I also used some “aluminum boat polish / cleaner” for good
luck……. it says it removes “small” scratches.

Carb is back on, but I decided I’m not hoisting that motor again
today, so tomorrow, back in the test barrel, and hopefully for
another boat ride.

When on the lake with it earlier today, that 12 hp was almost
“scary fast” for my little Alumacraft, and it was “porpoising”
for some reason. The 7-1/2 Elgin wouldn’t quite plain the boat
off……… this 12 hp shot off like a rocket…….. too bad I didn’t
get to run it more than a few minutes.

Just in case my lap job fails to fix the problem, I ordered
a carb kit……. $39 just so I could get a new needle and seat.
Such is life.

Prepare to be boarded!
September 8, 2023 at 7:50 pm #280362
John Gragg
Participant
US Member
Good luck. I’ll bet it does the trick.

John Gragg
RIverside, CA

Just starting in the hobby, please be patient.

48 Sea King 5hp GG9014A
49 Sea King 5hp GG9014A
48 Johnson TD20
49 Johnson TD20
54 Johnson QD15
55 Johnson CD12
57 Johnson RJE-19M
57 Johnson RDE-19
September 8, 2023 at 9:46 pm #280363
seakaye12
Participant
US Member
If that does not solve the issue I think I would loosen/remove the fuel line at the fuel pump and see if there is excessive pressure there? Splice a pressure gauge into the pump-to-carb line and see what you get?

Weird; eh?
September 8, 2023 at 10:28 pm #280365
Buccaneer
Participant
US Member
seakaye12 wrote:

If that does not solve the issue I think I would loosen/remove the fuel line at the fuel pump and see if there is excessive pressure there? Splice a pressure gauge into the pump-to-carb line and see what you get?

Weird; eh?

Guess I’d have no idea what normal pump pressure would be,
but guessing 4 psi or less.
Will report back tomorrow after the next barrel test.

Prepare to be boarded!
September 8, 2023 at 10:37 pm #280367
Tubs
Participant
Heavy float maybe?
Tubs.

A "Boathouse Repair" is one that done without having tools or the skills to do it properly.
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1959 Elgin 12 hp (West Bend) carb issue

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