2J Champion Trouble Shooting

[Buccaneer]

Started up the 1947, single cylinder, 4.2 hp, 2J Champion
today for the first time since I got it.
Gas tank was cleaned with acetone and "screws", shaken, not stirred.
Carb was soaked, cleaned, probed, and blown out, as
well as the fuel line.
Gas tank cap was taken apart and vent holes cleaned out.
New brass screen (100 mesh) was made and installed
inside of tank.
It started up after a few pulls, and just about the time I get
the high speed knob adjusted, it starts dying out.
Appears to be running out of gas, as if I choke it, I can keep it
running, but barely. It dies, and I let it sit a minute or so,
restart it, and same thing all over again.
I tried unscrewing the gas cap and it did not help.
The fuel shut off ( in a fitting just before the carb)
appears to only turn 1/2 turn between "Closed and Open".
Is that correct for these Blue Ribbon Champions?

I’ve used 100 mesh brass screen for other outboards with no
problem. Is 100 mesh normally okay?

It’s a pretty simple Tillotson ME-1A carb, and I see nothing
on the diagram that I may have missed, like an gasket
on a jet, etc.

I’ll tear back into it tomorrow, but just wondering
if ya’ll have any "Guesses" what’s wrong.
I just don’t understand it after cleaning everything so nice!
Thanks!

Prepare to be boarded!

[david-bartlett]

Buc,

I am not familiar with your motor, but if you disconnect the fuel line from the carb, you should be able to tell if enough fuel is flowing through your screen to keep the carb full/engine running. That would eliminate one variable.

[fisherman6]

Buc,
I’ll try to remember to check the rotation of the fuel valve on mine tomorrow. 1/2 turn seems a bit unusual though.
-Ben

OldJohnnyRude on YouTube

[Buccaneer]

I think I’ll unscrew the drain in the carb bowl first thing
to see what I have for flow. The shut off valve is close
to the carb, after the fuel line. You can’t get the fuel line
off on this one unless you loosen the carb to gain slack.
Ben, will be interested in knowing about your "shut off valve".
Thanks!

Prepare to be boarded!

[Buccaneer]

Ben, I’m 99.57% sure the problem was the shut off valve.
It must have been binding, but it’s free now, and now turns
several turns between "off and open".
I haven’t tried running it yet as I’m afraid it’s
severely flooded now. I laid the outboard on
it’s back with the carb "up" so the shut off valve
would be above the fuel level in the gas tank.
Guess I should have drained the carb first……
Bunch of gas came out the exhaust when I
uprighted the motor again 😮
UPDATE –
Started motor up after lunch. Didn’t even turn
the fuel valve on until after it was running, as
I knew it was going to be flooded.
Started up after a few pulls……. now it’s
getting to MUCH fuel, even with the high speed
jet screwed all the way in 😕
If I shut the fuel supply off, it will lean out, and
run good….. until the carb is depleted of fuel.
This "almost free" outboard is making me
work and think too hard!!!
Guess I’ll have to pull the carb and take a "Look-see".

Prepare to be boarded!

[fisherman6]

Buc,
I just looked at mine and when I saw it I remembered it does turn at least a couple turns from closed to open. Yours is now getting too much fuel. For that issue I would tend to suspect the float valve is sticking or binding. I have had my share of issues with the Tillotsons and that horizontal float needle not wanting to move freely. I have used a small bore brush to brush the inside of the needle seat to get rid of corrosion and deposits just on the diameter where the needle slides in and out without disturbing the seat. Sometimes that helps the valve work without sticking. I can’t remember if a .22 caliber brush was too big or not. I may have used a .17 cal. brush.

Mine gave me some fits getting it going too. It turned out to be a good runner though. It’s a fun motor to take out now and then. Too noisy and too much vibration for enjoyable frequent use for me, but I do enjoy running it periodically.
-Ben

OldJohnnyRude on YouTube

[Buccaneer]

I took the carb apart and was surprised to find a fair
amount of fine black sediment that got through the
100 mesh tank screen. Even more surprised to
see a bunch of the same stuff in the tank after
shaking it with screws and acetone until I was
blue in the face, then rinsed out three times
with some mineral spirits! It was a real mess when
I started cleaning it though….. lots of old dried
out gas, junk, flakes, etc.
Could not find any thing wrong with the carb other
than the sediment, so hoping it was the float
not seating, but I would have thought gas would
have run all over, out the vent, etc., when I shut the
engine down, but it didn’t.
Going to clean the tank some more tomorrow and make
up a new fuel line. The old hard line and worn out
ferrules aren’t sealing well.
Wish I had a paint shaker to mount the gas tank to for
a better cleaning. Might have to make a rig like Nali?

Prepare to be boarded!

[outbdnut2]

I’ve seen early 2Js with gas valves that take several turns and some later ones that only go a coarse 1/2 turn. Either type valve should work fine. I agree with others that either your float is sticking or the float valve is not seating properly. Oh – and very rare, but the float could have a hole in it and be sinking – but you would have noticed gas moving around inside the float when you took it apart.
Dave

[Buccaneer]

Got the tank re-cleaned, carb and new fuel line back on
today. Tried it out. Started first pull and I got the high speed
dialed in. Never got it to run much below start, as it would
start missing a little then all of a sudden "shut off".
Tried richening up the the low speed needle but it didn’t
help. It would then be hard to restart. Pulled the spark plug.
It was light tan, looked good, but changed the gap down to .025
from .030 for kicks.
The last time I tried it, it ran fine a high speed, but when slowed
down just below start, and after running there nice for about
a minute, shut itself off, and I could not restart it. 😕
Got disgusted and put it back in the garage, and tinkered
with the HD-15 Johnson for a while. I’m getting close to trying
to start it for the first time……. hope it goes better than the Champion!
P.S.- The Champion float doesn’t leak.
I may try a different carb pretty soon if I can’t come up with something.

Prepare to be boarded!

[fisherman6]

Buc,
When you richened up the low speed needle did you turn it clockwise? Just making sure you are aware the Tillotson carb has anot air metering needle in the low speed circuit instead of a fuel metering needle. It is at its richest when fully seated.
-Ben

OldJohnnyRude on YouTube

[Author]

Posts