Home › Forum › Ask A Member › 54 Johnson RD15A top seal (still) leaks
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joesnuffy.
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September 21, 2015 at 10:54 pm #24346quote OLCAH:Frank, I agree with the problems that you point out, yet if air is coming out the vertical drain tightness of the carbon does not matter. That would mean that when starting there would be some bubbling. (no vacuum). Do you have any take on why the redesign in 1955 or if a 1955 seal might be used? (Why redesign if the original arrangement was OK?)
Thanks.OK, let’s clear that subject up. In 1955 they made a bad mistake. They replaced the upper AND lower bearings and carbon seals with regular lip-type seals. Why? Because they were cheaper. And they turned out to be a disaster. Many 1955 powerheads had to be replaced under warranty when water got into the lower bearing. So, in 1956 they went back to a carbon seal on the lower bearing, but left the lip seal on the upper one (cheaper). And they kept that design till 1961. And none of the above had an o-ring around the upper bearing.
1962 brought a major change. The crankshaft diameter was increased due to shaft breakage problems, and also the upper bearing was bigger to fit the new crank. And yes it got an o-ring on the upper.
Yes, you can use the 1955-up upper bearing and seal in older models. But don’t even think of putting one in the lower position.
I’ll bet that if you were real creative, you could put a lip seal above the bearing in the top instead of the carbon seal. But I haven’t felt the need to try it.
September 22, 2015 at 10:24 am #24375I like Frank’s idea about removing the carbon seal/spring/cup and finding a seal that will fit above the bearing, tight into the crankcase halves. The problem would be finding such a seal, you would have to measure the ID of the crankcase bore and the OD of the crankshaft. You would have to be careful not to plug up the vertical drain slot for the vacuum recirc to the intake manifold though.
But first, I would try a new carbon seal/oring, and make sure the cup and spring are the correct pieces.September 22, 2015 at 1:09 pm #24382An adapter ring could be fabricated to go between the (whatever) seal you find, and the crankcase bore. Personally, I don’t think blocking the vertical slot would be a problem. In fact it would eliminate that possible leak path. My opinion, only.
September 22, 2015 at 9:41 pm #24403quote FrankR:An adapter ring could be fabricated to go between the (whatever) seal you find, and the crankcase bore. Personally, I don’t think blocking the vertical slot would be a problem. In fact it would eliminate that possible leak path. My opinion, only.I guess you are right, the vacuum port wouldn’t really be needed if an actual seal was installed.
July 17, 2016 at 5:01 pm #40386I want to post the outcome of this problem to help others. Besides the 1954 Johnson 25 HP this thread is about, I have a 54 Evinrude 25 HP (model 2512) that had the identical problem with massive top seal leakage. That Evinrude was fixed by opening the crankcase and reassembling with NO oring on the outside of the bearing as discussed below. After running about 3 tanks through the motor there is no sign of that leakage. I expect to do similar to the 54 Johnson this winter.
Thank you to Frank Robb, Fleetwin, Mumbles, Chris_P and others for explaining the top seal to me and seeing me through this. Opening the crankcase was the last thing I wanted but was required as the Evinrude motor did have an oring around the top bearing.
Here is the motor running this week.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/c … 5euct1.jpgJuly 17, 2016 at 5:37 pm #40389Gotta love a happy ending!
July 18, 2016 at 10:08 pm #40473Great, I’m glad splitting that crankcase pointed out the problem….
For the life of me, I can’t understand why any engineer would think this drain system was a good idea….
But, I could certainly see me making the mistake of adding the oring to that upper bearing, had this system not been explained by Frank….Jim sent my some nice pictures of his Bigtwin in action, what a cool rig!
Thanks to all-
JimJuly 20, 2016 at 12:56 pm #40561Great thread with tons of good information. Thanks Everyone involved. I’ve got a 1955 15hp that I re-did this is great info to know about.
Joe
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