Home › Forum › Ask A Member › Back To The No Spark Issue
- This topic has 22 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 1 month ago by
John Gragg.
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September 11, 2023 at 12:45 am #280451
POOF!
I had a response to Joecb, but it’s gone. I will post tomorrow when I’m on my computer. Lots of great information here, I want to keep you all up to speed with where I’m at.
I think the issue might be as simple as RPMs.
My first attempts when I got the motor home were at high rpm. I used a drill to rotate everything while I had an in-line spark tester attached. No spark, found that the points were filthy, which I have corrected. After that, I neglected to realize simply breaking the points would not show me spark. I was rotating the crank with a ratchet and socket, watching for spark. (In my defense, I could do that with my old cars back in the day).
It is very likely this beast will show spark tomorrow. A long way from running, but that single comment has me optimistic that I will at least solve this part of my endeavors.
More tomorrow. Thanks to all!
John Gragg
RIverside, CAJust starting in the hobby, please be patient.
48 Sea King 5hp GG9014A. Sold
49 Sea King 5hp GG9014A
48 Johnson TD20. Sold
49 Johnson TD20. Sold
54 Johnson QD15. Sold
55 Johnson CD12. Sold
57 Johnson RJE-19M
57 Johnson RDE-19September 11, 2023 at 10:22 am #280453The reason that you got spark on your car with slow rotation of the crank is because that was a 6/ 12 Volt battery ignition system, there was always full voltage to the points regardless of speed. With your magneto the primary voltage is generated by the moving magnets… speed makes it happen!
Joe B
September 11, 2023 at 1:17 pm #280465Yes, I figured that part out after the fact. I’m just not experienced with these motors and too old to think about things like that 1/2 the time…
John Gragg
RIverside, CAJust starting in the hobby, please be patient.
48 Sea King 5hp GG9014A. Sold
49 Sea King 5hp GG9014A
48 Johnson TD20. Sold
49 Johnson TD20. Sold
54 Johnson QD15. Sold
55 Johnson CD12. Sold
57 Johnson RJE-19M
57 Johnson RDE-19September 11, 2023 at 9:06 pm #280491Nothing really to report today, a lot of cleaning getting ready to put it back together.
I did do a magnetism test today.
It passed the 3/4″ test just fine.
See pic – I think I’m fine…
Best Regards,
John Gragg
RIverside, CAJust starting in the hobby, please be patient.
48 Sea King 5hp GG9014A. Sold
49 Sea King 5hp GG9014A
48 Johnson TD20. Sold
49 Johnson TD20. Sold
54 Johnson QD15. Sold
55 Johnson CD12. Sold
57 Johnson RJE-19M
57 Johnson RDE-19September 11, 2023 at 10:45 pm #280497Yes, for sure passed the magnetism test with flying colors, and plyers too. Which gets us back to the coils and how they were tested… and your confidence level that they are in fact good.
Joe B
September 11, 2023 at 11:17 pm #280498We’ll see in a few days. Started building the throttle advance plate today. Got both coils soldered to brand new plug wires. I’m 98% confident the coils are fine, reason is I really believe the points were the original problem. Once that was fixed I failed to give the magneto enough rpm to actually create spark. If I’m wrong, at least I will have known values to work with (and a new coil to insert if I have to) so troubleshooting should be much simpler.
Best Regards,
John Gragg
RIverside, CAJust starting in the hobby, please be patient.
48 Sea King 5hp GG9014A. Sold
49 Sea King 5hp GG9014A
48 Johnson TD20. Sold
49 Johnson TD20. Sold
54 Johnson QD15. Sold
55 Johnson CD12. Sold
57 Johnson RJE-19M
57 Johnson RDE-19September 12, 2023 at 10:44 am #280416testing condensers must be with a high voltage test eqpt. 9 volt VOM with capacitance won’t load test it proeprly… try new conensers.
suggest you try building your own test box see article below … MR Mohat can supply schematic for the basic box…. easy to build and very effective
see articles from western region aomci
https://wrcoutboards.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Articles_Ignition_Part3_Magic_Of_Magneto_r.pdf
https://wrcoutboards.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Part1_Condenser_Construction_Failure_Modes.pdf
https://wrcoutboards.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Part3_Sizing_Condensers_Correctly.pdf
https://wrcoutboards.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Part4_Repairing_Broken_Condensers.pdf
Joining AOMCI has priviledges 🙂
1 user thanked author for this post.
September 12, 2023 at 10:45 am #280439Frank,
I responded to a 2015 post and ‘quoted’ a response you sent back then. Can I ask if I understand what you said back then?
The OP was asking about setting up the timing on a ’48 Sea King.
OP:
Finishing a rebuild on a Ward Seaking 84GG9007A that I started 6 years ago. Its a 3hp single cylinder. I am not sure how to set the timing on this thing? I have a manual for similar models but it doesn’t specify for single cylinder. Plus I dont see any timing marks on the armature plate. Any help would be appreciated.
OP: (after your answer)
Thanks.
Is there supposed to be a special relation between where the pistons sits, where the throttle advance lever is and when the point is open?You:Yes, but it is fixed by design and not adjustable. Except by moving the throttle lever when you change speeds.
My question:
I pulled the rotor magnet and advance plate off my ’49 Monkey Wards GG9014A but failed to note any installation marks or reference points. Also did not think to TDC either of the cylinders. I’ve searched every inch of the flywheel, rotor magnet and advance plate for alignment marks. Can’t find a thing.
If I’m reading what you are saying correctly, I didn’t mess up too bad? Just reinstall the plate in a position that allows proper advance and set the points and coil heel gaps, correct?
Thank You
Best Regards,
John Gragg
RIverside, CAJust starting in the hobby, please be patient.
48 Sea King 5hp GG9014A. Sold
49 Sea King 5hp GG9014A
48 Johnson TD20. Sold
49 Johnson TD20. Sold
54 Johnson QD15. Sold
55 Johnson CD12. Sold
57 Johnson RJE-19M
57 Johnson RDE-19September 12, 2023 at 11:11 am #280512Yes, that is correct.
1 user thanked author for this post.
September 12, 2023 at 7:46 pm #280536First, I want to thank everyone who chimed in to assist me with troubleshooting my ‘no spark’ issue. Thank You!
Second, I fully realize I am not yet at the finish line with this. I have already ordered a spark ‘gap jump’ tester (not sure what the proper name is) to further test my success.
Where was the issue? I’m 99% sure it was in the points to begin with (and 1 bad coil, but that would not kill both cylinders). Then, as I have already divulged, I completely lost my mind and relied on my muscle-car experiences regarding ignitions. I failed to test for spark with sufficient RPMs (I was just turning over the motor with a socket and a ratchet), and was simply looking at the points hoping to see the spark. Full disclosure, I was not smart enough to figure that out on my own. Another member gave the reminder!
The build included 1 used coil and cleaned/polished points. ALl screws, bolts, nuts, washers, etc were also cleaned. All electronic connections were checked for continuity where required (e.g., even the wire between the condenser and the condenser end connector). All connectors were cleaned and, in some cases, lightly sanded to remove oxidation and dirt/grease.
New plug wires were soldered to the coils and measured to 1 1/2″ longer than the originals. New boots were installed and both ends metered for continuity. (I left the wires long as my boots came in blue. Going to reorder after I find some black ones.)
At the suggestion of one of the members I purchased some brass shim stock to gap the coils. This is by far the hardest job in the whole scenario. The whole job took about 3 1/2 hours and gapping the coils was probably an hour of that!
Turned off the lights, closed the garage door and installed my inline spark checker. Both cylinders are firing and do not appear to be missing at all. I am pretty much a happy camper right now.
I need to put the carburetor back together, install it and hang the tank. I hope to test for a running motor some time next week.
Once that is done, I will evaluate how far I go with this one. I’m picking up a Johnson TD20 on Saturday that looks really promising, so I need room in my brain to think about that 🤔.
Again, I am very appreciative of all the assistance. This has been a fun and exciting challenge.
Thank you all,
Best Regards,
John Gragg
RIverside, CAJust starting in the hobby, please be patient.
48 Sea King 5hp GG9014A. Sold
49 Sea King 5hp GG9014A
48 Johnson TD20. Sold
49 Johnson TD20. Sold
54 Johnson QD15. Sold
55 Johnson CD12. Sold
57 Johnson RJE-19M
57 Johnson RDE-19 -
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