Home Forum Ask A Member Evinrude 90HP 1999 “NO OIL” ALARM

Viewing 9 posts - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #263633
    BobKoch
    Participant

      I have a Evinrude 90HP Model E90FPLEEC, SN G04545987 that sometimes triggers the “NO OIL” alarm.  It may run great for several hours and then usually after short runs at low rpm the NO OIL Alarm will go on.  I shut it down immediately and pump the squeeze bulb on the oil reservoir, it always seems firm but I squeeze it anyway,  it may or may not alarm again after restarting the engine.  As mentioned this is an intermittent problem but is very frustrating.  I am wondering if anyone has any suggestions other than just throwing new parts at it which are quite costly.

      I know there is a pressure switch on the oil pump #04450378 that if defective could trigger the alarm.  Does anyone know what that pressure switch it is set at or if there is a history of  defective pressure switches.

       

      #263634
      crosbyman
      Participant

        Canada Member

        on ETEC  post FICHT  no oil equates to  missing pressure pulses senses  for  X  duration

         

        on early ETEC 2004-5  a new oil pump and software fixed the code 38s

         

        look for air bubbles on the oil lines … oil pump could be sucking air  causing missed  pulses on the sensor.

        you should get  the  diagnostic software for your MODERN engine 🙂   fault codes will be listed

         

        visit the  ETEC board  but  they do no answer FICHT quieries    do a searfch on code 38s

        Search results for ‘code 38 ‘ – Barnacle Bill’s Marine Supply (etecownersgroup.com)

        Joining AOMCI has priviledges 🙂

        • This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by crosbyman.
        #263666
        fleetwin
        Participant

          US Member

          Well yes, there is a pressure switch on the vacuum/pressure driven oil pump. There were never and big issues with the pressure switch, but surely the pump can get worn, perhaps the diaphramn is just worn out causing weak performance at idle. You mention the “no oil” alarm activates, does the check engine light come on as well? Does this happen usually at low speeds after running for awhile? If so, you might try the following the next time it happens. Don’t shut the engine off, prime the oil bulb while the engine is running. If the light goes out after priming, it is safe to guess there is some sort of oil pressure issue. Keep in mind that these alarms stay on for a bit once triggered, so allow the alarm to stay on long enough so the horn shuts off but the “no oil” light is still illuminated. The engine is running at idle, you won’t damage it letting it run while this alarm “times out”.
          Another thing to consider is that these system check gages were notoriously unreliable back in the day, so it could be a problem with the tach/gage as well. Like others have said, perhaps there is a restriction or air leak in the oil line/pick up causing the pressure issue as well. When was the last time you replaced the pick up filter. Not a bad idea to clean out the oil tank every once in awhile although this is a messy job indeed. Sometimes the oil gets gelled up a bit with time and may be causing a flow issue. Just be sure to bleed the oil line before restarting the engine to purge any air that got in during the cleaning process.
          Keep in mind that this oiling system is a two part deal. The vacuum/pressure pump supplies the oil the the electric oil distribution manifold. Problems with the oil distribution manifold system may trigger a “check engine alarm”, not the no oil alarm. You will need the laptop and software to investigate and codes stored by the “check engine” alarm.
          I’m “guessing” that there is an issue with the oil pick up pump triggering the low pressure switch, but please check everything else first. I agree with you, don’t just start throwing very expensive parts at this issue only to have it remain. Keep in mind that this oil pick up pump is driven by pressure/vacuum pulses from two different crankcases. Perhaps there is a leaky pressure/vacuum hose. An internal problem in one of the crankcases could cause this issue as well, you may want to do a compression test on the cylinders. Yes, I realize that a compression gage is not going to tell how well a crankcase is being sealed, but low/erratic reading could indicate a problem.
          Again, let’s stick to simple things for now and avoid the urge to throw big money at it by replacing expensive parts. I wish you could just replace the diaphragm in the oil pick up pump, but I don’t think they offered repair parts for it.

          #263693
          BobKoch
          Participant

            Thank you for your prompt response to my inquiry.  Yes this alarm is usually after multiple short runs at low rpm.  For example after drift fishing and short runs to adjust position.

            I have previously checked the oil reservoir pick up filter and it is clean and no apparent blockage.

            Per y0ur suggestion I am going to draw a vacuum on the pick up hose from the reservoir to the oil pump manifold and see if my Vac. gage holds over time.

            I will also check the short hoses at the engine for leaks as best as I can.

            You mentioned the Tach/Gage reliability, would this failure be identified by a specific code in the diagnostic test.

            Bob

             

            #263710
            fleetwin
            Participant

              US Member

              Well, I don’t know if you need to put a vacuum gage on the pick up hose. I would simply pump the oil tank primer bulb and look for external leaks caused by building pressure with the oil line primer bulb.
              Sure, there is a possibility that there is an air leak from before the primer bulb into the tank pick up, but this is not very likely. In order to perform this vacuum test, you would have to pull the pick up out of the tank, drain the oil out of the line, then remove the filter and somehow plug the inlet hose. A messy job indeed. You mentioned replacing the oil tank filter, did your clean out the tank and fill with fresh TCW 3 lube? Like I said, sometimes the oil sits in the tank and gets gelled with age, or when mixed with different brands of lube. It is also a good idea to change the lube to ensure there is no moisture/water in the bottom of the oil tank. This is a very common problem, especially when the oil tank sits low in the bilge. Keep in mind the no oil alarm does not know the difference between oil and water. As for the oil pump crankcase hoses, a visual inspection should do. There will be signs of wetness on the hoses and surrounding area if there is some sort of leak.
              There is no specific code that indicates a bad system check gage/tach unit. Again, are you only getting the no oil alarm? Or, are you getting a check engine warning also? Again, ECU codes are only stored when you see the “check engine” warning. There are four warnings you can get: “low oil”, meaning the oil level in the tank is 1/4 full or less/ “no oil”, meaning the pressure switch on the oil pick up pump has sensed a low pressure condition/ “overheat”, meaning the engine has overheated, or “check engine” meaning the ECU has senses one of many possible faults which will be stored and can be retrieved with a laptop and the prober cable/software. It is tough to evaluate the system check gage. Does it do its self check when you turn the key on? In other words, the alarm should sound briefly, all the warning lights will come on, then go out one at a time. Usually, we just swap out the gages if they are in question. But, that is an expensive option, and I think the gage is OK..
              I am leaning towards thinking your oil lift pump is getting weak. I suppose we could kind of test a little further by removing the sensor lead from the oil pressure switch. But, I can not remember if the switch grounds when it sees pressure or opens. Now, that I think about it, I feel confident that the switch grounds when pressure is low. An easy way to test would be do disconnect the lead and connect an ohm meter between the terminal and ground while the engine is not running. Seeing a reading close to zero would indicate that the switch grounds when no pressure is present. Unfortunately, seems like this is an intermittent problem, so this approach could be very frustrating. Please don’t run the engine at high RPM with the pressure switch disconnected. I suppose you could wait for the alarm to sound then disconnect the switch terminal while it is running. If this silences the alarm/puts out the light, then I would feel comfortable saying the alarm if accurate and you have some sort of oil pick up pump issue. Once again, keep in mind that even a brand new oil pump is not going to operate properly if there are internal issues causing poor vaccum/pressure signal to the pump. Again, you might want to do a compression test. Yes, I realize that great compression readings does not mean you have great crankcase pressure vacuum signals. But, low/ uneven readings, probably mean internal troubles that are affecting the signals to the pump.
              Sorry, alot of conjecture here. I will have to review some of my old manuals to see how that pressure switch is activated. And yes, I realize it is not easy to remove the intake cover and get at that switch while the engine is running. You want to make up a little wiring extension allowing you to make or break the switch connection more conveniently than trying to remove everything while the engine is running. Above all, please be careful. My methods are somewhat unorthodox, and could cause you to fall in the water or get injured. Always have a helper along just in case something happens. Safety first.
              Finally it is important to remember how that system check gage works. Even a fault that lasts for only a few seconds will cause the alarm to sound for at least 30 seconds along with the corresponding light. Once the alarm shuts up, the light will stay on until the problem is resolved. The alarm is there to get your attention so you will look at the lights. Not understanding how this gage functions can create more frustration and inaccurate assumptions.
              Sorry to ramble on here, I will try to rustle up one of my old service manuals and reviews troubleshooting procedures. D

              #263723
              fleetwin
              Participant

                US Member

                PS: Just thought of an easier way to check that pressure switch warning. ‘
                Remove the lead from the pressure switch
                Turn the key “on” m but don’t start the engine, and let the gage cycle through its test procedure.
                Now, with the key on and engine not running, touch the lead to a good engine ground. The no oil light should come on (no alarm) until you remove the lead from ground. Might be easier to do this with an assistant after the sun has set so you/he can see the light clearly…. If this works out normally, then it is safe to assume the warning is activated by grounding the pressure switch/lead.
                Now, you could take an ohm meter on the high scale and connect one end of the lead to ground the other end to the pressure switch terminal, the meter should show infinity. This test can be done on the trailer or at the dock.
                If you wanted to test it running:
                Get the engine warmed up, in the water on on a flushette is OK, then shut it off.
                Now disconnect the pressure switch lead and restart the engine.
                With the engine running, touch the sensor lead to ground. The horn should come on for about thirty seconds, then turn off, the light will stay for at least thirty seconds also, and for as long as the sensor lead is grounded after that. .

                • This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by fleetwin.
                #263968
                crosbyman
                Participant

                  Canada Member

                  btw see this happy ending story ….. oil sensor   soaked -washed in fuel for 2  days and no oil alarms cleared up

                  https://www.etecownersgroup.com/post/etec-50hp-no-oil-alarm-12406774?trail=15#7

                  Joining AOMCI has priviledges 🙂

                  #263971
                  BobKoch
                  Participant

                    So I was able to purchase a used Oil Lift Pump #5001504 on ebay (<$50) and thought why not try it.  While previously looking over the hoses and fittings for leaks I had already determined that this was not the original Pump on the motor some of the clamps did not look like factory etc.  So as I was removing the old pump from the mounting bracket I noted that the (2) screws on the rear of the pump were loose,  less than finger tight.  As it happens these rear screws are difficult to access with a wrench.  All (4)  mounting screw holes are clearance in the pump housing and are threaded into the mounting bracket thereby also clamping the housing halves onto the diaphragm.  The (2) loose rear screws could allow the pump diaphragm to leak because the pump housing is not clamping onto the diaphragm uniformly.  After replacing the pump, and tightening all (4) screws with a wrench the engine has been run several times and the “No Oil” alarm has not sounded.  Great!  So it could have been a hole in the old diaphragm or just leaking because of the loose mounting screws.

                    The current plan is to run as is for a few more outings and if problem free I will order a new factory pump and replace the used one I purchased from ebay keeping the used one for a back-up.

                    Thank you to everyone that commented on my post and provided suggestions.  I will definitely use the Antique Outboard Motor Club as  a resource in the future if the need arises.

                    #263983
                    fleetwin
                    Participant

                      US Member

                      COOL! I’m glad it worked out. Your theory makes sense. D

                    Viewing 9 posts - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)
                    • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.