General ignition question….

[amuller]

All my outboards have always had point/condenser ignition, similar to what would find on an old lawn mower or other small engine. When these went to solid state ignitions they were generally very simple–a coil with internal trigger, and maybe a charging stator or coil for lights and battery.

On the other hand, many outboards, when they moved away from points, went to very complex and expensive systems. I’m looking at the manual for a Force 9.9 hp from the 1990s. There are two magnet rings, and numerous components and interconnections. People abandon these motors when they go "no spark" because of the complexity and expense of diagnosis and repair, NLA black boxes, and so on.

Can anyone explain why the manufacturers went to such complex systems? If simple and inexpensive ignitions serve well on garden tractors and suchlike, who not on outboards? I must be missing something..

[RICHARD A. WHITE]

Simple and inexpensive was the way most all outboard ignitions were in the 50’s, those same ignitions are easily serviceable by most generally mechanically apt persons. And then the mid 70’s hit..UGH..

Others like Frank Robb have the more precise reason they changed, and I personally wish they would go back.
IMHO, absolutely no reason to incorporate the kill circuit into an enclosed, non-repairable electronic "box"

2 wires wired to a push button switch is quite simple, UGH..LOL

Regards

Richard

http://www.richardsoutboardtools.com
classicomctools@gmail.com

[frankr]

Interesting topic. I don’t claim to have all the answers, but I’ve seen the progression through the years. Back in the early 1960’s we had lots of trouble with those larger and inefficient motors wet fouling spark plugs. So that glorious battery CD ignition was invented. State of the art, but not very good. Then along came the Mag CD systems that are still being used in many motors. Let’s face it, they work pretty well. And lawn mowers, motorcycles, and chainsaws use systems that are patterned after it. However, most but not all lawn mowers are single cylinder and can get away with a simple coil unit and a pair of magnets and for the most part run at constant speed (well not motorcycles). But outboards present bigger challenges. We now have stuff like V-6 engines with electricity-eating power trim, etc. So ways to make those 6 cylinders fire at the right time and also have room to put a 35 Amp alternator in there were needed. Not to even mention the need to make it run wonderfully at any speed.

So I know this doesn’t answer the question why a lawn mower unit won’t work on a Lightwin. I guess it is progress and we need to learn to live with it. This same progress is why I can’t work on my own car anymore.

[billw]

Part of the reason outboard CD ignitions have gotten a bad rap is because they largely deserve it. It probably all comes down to the almighty dollar. The Merc and OMC ignition systems were just not reliable enough. The internal components just did not cut it. A lot of the stuff was built in Mexico; but no matter where it was built, it should have answered to a higher corporate standard. I have never, ever, replaced a bad Yamaha ignition component. I also do a lot of hobby small power equipment work; and there, too, the ignition stuff is almost bullet proof. Interestingly, the only exception to that is the OMC-built Lawnboy CD ignitions, which can fail at the drop of a hat or go forever, just like their outboard brothers. That says something about corporate philosophy, IMHO.

Long live American manufacturing!

[amuller]

quote BillW:

Part of the reason outboard CD ignitions have gotten a bad rap is because they largely deserve it. It probably all comes down to the almighty dollar. The Merc and OMC ignition systems were just not reliable enough. The internal components just did not cut it. A lot of the stuff was built in Mexico; but no matter where it was built, it should have answered to a higher corporate standard. I have never, ever, replaced a bad Yamaha ignition component. I also do a lot of hobby small power equipment work; and there, too, the ignition stuff is almost bullet proof. Interestingly, the only exception to that is the OMC-built Lawnboy CD ignitions, which can fail at the drop of a hat or go forever, just like their outboard brothers. That says something about corporate philosophy, IMHO.

Yep. Many old-style ignitions are marginal in the sense that if everything isn’t just right there will be hard starting and misfiring. Modern systems with rapid rise and high energy can fire almost any plug not shorted with conductive material, and they don’t require routine maintenance.

Electronics are reliable if properly designed and constructed. I feel like the combination of high price, excess complexity, and low quality seen in OB ignitions is not really excusable.

(Then, I suppose one could say the same of the molded plastic coils that turned out to be inferior to the old taped and baked ones….)

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