Magneto to Battery conversion

[Buccaneer]

Anyone know how this conversion was designed?
Evidently, whomever had this motor, faced the same
problem with an AWOL Elkhart magneto.

Would there a cam on the magneto drive shaft
operating a set of points, and is the lever a
kill switch or an advance / retard lever?
Looking for ideas on how to create something similar
if I can’t find or adapt a magneto to mount on the cylinder.

Not sure if the original magneto had any means to advance the
timing, or if it would allow the engine to run in reverse.

Ideas welcomed. Thanks.

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[stanley]

Not much of an idea,but I would be pestering the local "hit n miss" engine and tractor guys.I do know that when it comes to the old magnetos,there is an exact ratio between mag gear and drive gear that helps determine timing.

[Buccaneer]

Stanley, I’ve had a few hit and miss engines over the years, and still have
a 2-1/2 hp GRAY engine. They’ve all been battery / coil ignition.
Messed with a few magnetos on old tractors, but never outboards.
Just looking for a little ingenuity and a brilliance. Most days I’m
challenged on both!
Thanks.

Prepare to be boarded!

[Tom]

Comparing what’s here to what’s in the photo of your motor in progress, the driveshaft for the mag and the bracket that holds it in place are original. I can’t tell from the photo what that contraption is where the mag should be, but it seems to be more than is necessary. And I can’t see from the photo what the lever with the red handle goes to. There is no need to mount a condenser on the motor, that would be part of the battery box with a Model T buzz coil in it.

The gear on the mag drive shaft should have either the same number of teeth as the gear on the flywheel, or twice as many. If it has the same number of teeth, then it rotates at the same speed as the flywheel. If twice as many, then it turns at half the flywheel speed. Any other combination is probably wrong.

A battery box / coil will have three leads coming out of it. One goes to the spark plug, that one should be obvious. Of the other two, one goes to the motor ground, and one goes to an isolated contact. If there is continuity between these two, the coil will be active, and spark will be generated. The good thing about this arrangement is that as long as those leads are connected, spark will be generated. It’s not like a magneto where you get one spark.

Lets say there is a screw sticking out of that drum that is supposed to mesh with the missing magneto. Mount an electrically isolated flat piece of brass under the drum, so the screw contacts it when the screw is point downward. Hook the battery box leads up to the motor and the isolated contact, and you will get spark when the screw hits the contact. You won’t be able to adjust timing with this arrangement, but you could certainly get the motor running.

I am going out on a limb here: Is it possible that the mechanism mounted in the photo above is installed incorrectly? It may be that the round thing has points in it and it should be rotated 90 degrees so the back of it meshes with the mag drive. Tough to tell from the photo. If you can get more photos of that assembly, we could probably figure it out.

Email me at manleyt1923@gmail.com if you have questions, need more information, or want help rigging something up.

Tom

[Buccaneer]

quote Tom Manley:

Comparing what’s here to what’s in the photo of your motor in progress, the driveshaft for the mag and the bracket that holds it in place are original. I can’t tell from the photo what that contraption is where the mag should be, but it seems to be more than is necessary. And I can’t see from the photo what the lever with the red handle goes to. There is no need to mount a condenser on the motor, that would be part of the battery box with a Model T buzz coil in it.
The motor with the homemade ignition is from Jack Craib’s website. Not sure if it’s his.
He’s taking a "time out" so I’m not able to ask him questions.

The gear on the mag drive shaft should have either the same number of teeth as the gear on the flywheel, or twice as many. If it has the same number of teeth, then it rotates at the same speed as the flywheel. If twice as many, then it turns at half the flywheel speed. Any other combination is probably wrong.
I’m guessing, by the size of the drive and driven gears, that they have
the same number of teeth. I’ll have to count them out of curiosity.

A battery box / coil will have three leads coming out of it. One goes to the spark plug, that one should be obvious. Of the other two, one goes to the motor ground, and one goes to an isolated contact. If there is continuity between these two, the coil will be active, and spark will be generated. The good thing about this arrangement is that as long as those leads are connected, spark will be generated. It’s not like a magneto where you get one spark.
I have a battery ignition, with a Model T type coil, hooked up to my GRAY hit and miss engine
that I can refresh my memory as far as the wiring. I’m just not sure how to design the contact
to operate off the magneto drive shaft, timing, etc.

Lets say there is a screw sticking out of that drum that is supposed to mesh with the missing magneto. Mount an electrically isolated flat piece of brass under the drum, so the screw contacts it when the screw is point downward. Hook the battery box leads up to the motor and the isolated contact, and you will get spark when the screw hits the contact. You won’t be able to adjust timing with this arrangement, but you could certainly get the motor running.
You’re giving me some good ideas here. The magneto appeared to be originally driven by two fiber pins in the end
of the driveshaft coupler. Perhaps a pin in one hole could be used to actuate the ignition contact?

I am going out on a limb here: Is it possible that the mechanism mounted in the photo above is installed incorrectly? It may be that the round thing has points in it and it should be rotated 90 degrees so the back of it meshes with the mag drive. Tough to tell from the photo. If you can get more photos of that assembly, we could probably figure it out.
I’m hoping that whomever owns that motor will chime in some time on how
the contacts are set up, and if the lever is an "advance" or "kill switch"
Thanks for the help Tom!

Email me at manleyt1923@gmail.com if you have questions, need more information, or want help rigging something up.

Tom

Prepare to be boarded!

[Tom]

OK, I looked at the series of photos on Jack’s site. It looks like there is a coil with condenser mounted where the magneto should be. I can’t tell whether is is a buzz coil or not.

In back of the drum that normally drives the mag, there appears to be a fiber disk, likely with a pin in it that grounds out to the mag drive shaft. Next to that, mounted with an adjustment handle, must be an isolated point, likely spring loaded. As the disk spins, the pin lines up and contacts the isolated point, making the circuit to fire the coil. The isolated point is mounted so that there is some timing adjustment using the handle.

Tom

[Buccaneer]

quote Tom Manley:

OK, I looked at the series of photos on Jack’s site. It looks like there is a coil with condenser mounted where the magneto should be. I can’t tell whether is is a buzz coil or not.

In back of the drum that normally drives the mag, there appears to be a fiber disk, likely with a pin in it that grounds out to the mag drive shaft. Next to that, mounted with an adjustment handle, must be an isolated point, likely spring loaded. As the disk spins, the pin lines up and contacts the isolated point, making the circuit to fire the coil. The isolated point is mounted so that there is some timing adjustment using the handle.

Tom

Tom, you must have a lot better eyes than me, and I even "blew up" the photo.
Sounds like you’re talking about the same fiber pin(s) that mine once had.
Will look again at Jack’s photos.
Thanks!

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[Author]

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