Wisconsin RBM starting help

[Buccaneer]

Tubs wrote:

Don’t turn it into brain surgery. You just need
to get the plug firing at the point where your
letting go of the knob which is the point the
piston stops moving upward. Getting the
right fuel mixture so it will take off is trial
and error. Mostly error.
(Lead burn off to the heat element on the dryer ?)
Tubs

• This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by Tubs.

Tubs, “Math” was never my subject in school, but I still like to stretch my
brain occasionally just to keep it working! I couldn’t get it started two
years ago, but I am a little more hopeful now that you schooled me
and my experimentation with the timer range shows that
it “should” run!

I need to put the switch some motors around before I try starting
it to get in on a more stable stand, plus clamp it to the work bench.

Drier drum belt blew apart, new one is installed and it’s working again.
No more bird crap on the clean laundry!

Richard, I’ll start out with just a wee bit of fuel feeding the beast,
and work my way up from that. Thanks!

Prepare to be boarded!

[Buccaneer]

Finally got the motor on a stable stand and attached it to the workbench
for some more fun.

Tried a while starting it by bouncing it off compression, playing
with the spark advance and fuel mixture.

I have to believe the spark is retarded close to where it needs to be,
as it’s kicking pretty good when it fires, but it’s not following through
on the “forward” firing that I can tell.

In the video, I have the fuel tank valve and mixer shut off, as my
< 1/4 turn open on the fuel mixture needle may have been too much,
as I had some gas dripping out from the mixer / carb.

I’m starting to wonder if the lower unit is a little too stiff, as
it’s may be turning a little stiffer than it should, even with the plug out.
It’s been too long since I went thru the L.U., so I can’t remember if
I had any concerns at the time.

Maybe it’s time to pull the L.U. and try starting it?
https://youtu.be/UAPsPZ2TmhM

Prepare to be boarded!

[Buccaneer]

I tried started the “Badger State” Wisconsin motor some more this afternoon. I actual got it to “hit” about three times
in forward rotation. Does that count as “running”? lol.

I found a “happy” place on my timer for bouncing it off compression, well within
the original design.

I normally throw open my knife switch on the battery box when I’m rocking the flywheel
to charge the cylinder with fuel, but a couple of times I forgot, and it jerked the knob
out of my hand…….. now my hand hurts so much I have a hard time making a fist.
Hope I remember tomorrow!

I think the mixer is letting too much fuel into the cylinder, even with the needle barely
cracked open. I can’t remember what shape the needle was in, but it seems like
the spring on the poppet valve is even wimppier than it should be, and the poppet
valve may have considerable side slop.
How much gas dribbling out from around the poppet valve “tickler” is normal
while starting?

https://youtu.be/9-2oiuwiOls

Prepare to be boarded!

[Bob Wight]

Well, it’s making a little smoke! Stay with it, I’m sure you’ll get it going!

Bob

1937 Champion D2C Deluxe Lite Twin
1954 Johnson CD-11
1955 Johnson QD-16
1957 Evinrude Fastwin 18
1957 Evinrude 3022
1958 Johnson QD-19
1958 Johnson FD-12
1959 Johnson QD-20

“Every 20 minute job is only a broken bolt away from a 3-day project.”
"Every time you remove a broken or seized bolt an angel gets his wings."

[Buccaneer]

Maybe I need to add an automatic timing advance to kick in
after the initial kickback!

Prepare to be boarded!

[Tubs]

Now that you have it firmly mounted
try setting the timing just past TDC.
You probably won’t be able to reach
this point by bouncing it off
compression so pull it through instead.
This should give you a bigger “kick”
when the plug fires to keep it going.
When it kicked back and hurt your
hand that would seem to indicate you
have found the correct fuel – air mixture.
Once you get it running and dialed in
you may have more success starting it
by bouncing it off compression.
Tubs

A "Boathouse Repair" is one that done without having tools or the skills to do it properly.

[Buccaneer]

Tubs, I was laying in bed last night thinking about the next plan of attack.
First, I’m going to look at the poppet valve, spring, and needle in the carb
to see if improvements are needed.

And I thought about pulling it through compression, but I need to mark
or re-mark the timer position for TDC so I don’t get any nasty surprises.
My hand is still messed up……… thinking I have “old age itis”….. so I
hope I get it running soon!

I was also pondering / wishing I had a limber, flat rubber belt I could wrap
around the flywheel for a “pull cord”. Alas, I have nothing that fits
the bill, and doubt if it would work very well anyhoo.
Thanks,

Prepare to be boarded!

[Tubs]

Here is what you need- if it didn’t kill you!!!

A "Boathouse Repair" is one that done without having tools or the skills to do it properly.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by Tubs.

[Buccaneer]

It resembles a “drill”, but for 4K it must have some special attributes!

I have the carb apart right now. My memory was correct,
the poppet valve spring was very whimpy, and the valve stem
guide is “very” sloppy.

I thought I had the carb removed from the cylinder when I went through
the motor a couple of years ago, but perhaps not, as I can’t find any
photos to prove it. There’s not a good way to attach a tool to unscrew
it, and if it hasn’t been out in 100 years, I don’t want to bust it when
I’m this close to get it running.

I’ll have to make do with the sloppy guide. The valve stem does not show
hardly any wear with the micrometer. The valve guide is only about 1/4″ long
and the hole is not centered in the casting, which makes drilling out the guide
and installing a bushing not a good option.

Not sure if the valve and stem is one piece, hard to tell. An oversize stem
might be an option, but I think the guide hole flares out at the bottom,
more oversize than the top of the hole.

I took the poppet valve spring out of my “parts” Ace carb, and it
is more substantial, and fits nicely.
The hole in the casting that the needle seats in didn’t even look “round”,
so I gently tapped the heavy duty needle into the hole with my brass hammer
a few taps.

There was about 1/2 of a thimble full of “crud” in the fuel line, mixer,
and gas tank. Not sure if it was from contaminated gas or not,
but the “Red Cote” sealer in the tank still looks nice after two years.
Going to flush the tank out the best I can, but the mixer back together,
and see what happens.

Prepare to be boarded!

[Buccaneer]

Here’s a short video of the sloppy poppet valve guide.
I put a better spring in it from an Elto Ace. The poppet valve
still opens about 1/16″ inch when rocking the flywheel, so
thinking the new spring tension is okay?

Am I wasting my time trying to start it with the poppet valve
guide that bad?

After I got the carb back together, I tried starting it again.
On time it fired about 6 times in forward rotation. I was
so surprised, I forgot to advance the timing.
A few tries later it fired about three times forward, I advanced
the timing, and it died anyway. It was all downhill from there.
I’m never sure if it’s getting too much or not enough gas half the time,
but played around with more and less fuel, but both hands hurt now,
so it’s was time to quit for the day!

https://youtu.be/IvSAEkaIm2U

Prepare to be boarded!

[Author]

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