Home Forum Ask A Member Wisconsin RBM starting help

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  • #245600
    Tubs
    Participant



      I had the stem break off of one of the valves
      in one of my Speedster’s. I don’t know how
      long it was missing when I first noticed it
      but it ran OK for quite a while after I did
      so I’d have to say your motor should still run.
      Tubs

      A "Boathouse Repair" is one that done without having tools or the skills to do it properly.

      • This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by Tubs.
      #245602
      HARRY D. NICHOLSON
      Participant

        US MEMBER PAY BY CHECK

        Check for spark first. Then, the best way I know of for starting a motor is to remove the spark plug and give 2 misty squirts of fuel mix into the cylinder with the piston halfway up. With the timer handle previously set on medium speed, put the plug in and start. (I use a red squirt oil can with an adjustable tip for spray or squirt.) I would not use a drill to start anything good since the top of the crank may break off from over-torqueing the nut that way.

        #245604
        Buccaneer
        Participant

          US Member

          Tubs, good to know that the poppet valve may not be the problem.
          It’s hard to fix it up, being I’d probably break it trying to unscrew if from
          the cylinder.

          Harry, I’ve check the spark a couple of times, and recharged the battery
          once for good luck. You can hear it sparking / buzzing pretty loud when
          you turn the flywheel slow.

          Half the time I think I have too much fuel, but maybe I’ll try give it
          a little more tomorrow.

          As tempted as I am to hook the flywheel up to a motion device, I’m holding off.
          I’ve conjured up all kinds of devices in my mind…….. electric motor and a belt,
          big rope pulley mounted atop of the flywheel, etc., but I agree to stay away
          from the flywheel nut.

          Thanks.

          Prepare to be boarded!

          #245620
          PM T2
          Participant

            Canada Member

            You may think your compression is strong enough, but have you actually measured it?

            FWIW with a magneto like that, I think you will have to pull it through compression to get it to fire up, but what do I know.

            Back to the compression – I have been wrestling with a Blakely or Gray Gearless motor this summer. It would kick when I cranked it but never wanted to fire up. The compression measured at a tad over 40 lbs, which normally is not terrible for a rowboat motor – but it would not start unless I doused the combustion chamber with heavy oil ( heavy as in SAW 75 gear oil). I determined that while the compression value was semi-acceptable, the clearance on the side of the piston ring (single 1/2 inch wide ring) was excessive. Due to excessive material having been removed from the sides of the groove, the clearance ranged from 0.006″ to 0.009″, whereas the usual spec is a max of 0.003″/0.004″. The ring also had a radial thickness of only 0.100″, where as it should have been more like 0.115″. This combination of conditions resulted in excessive leakage of compression around the ring (not thru the end gap) and as a result, this motor would not run as it was.

            As an experiment and at the suggestion of the piston ring supplier, I packed the ring groove with heavy grease and put it back together. The engine did start up and actually ran as long as the fuel supply held out, which was only seconds since I didn’t have the gas tank mounted…but once the grease heated up and flowed out of the ring groove, I was back to a the only-once-in-a-while kick scenario again…

            When I received the new rings (had to go with a pair of quarter-inchers) I fitted them with the side clearance as recommended by the supplier. This meant opening up the groove width and using a spacer ring to take up the excess. I ended up with about 0.002″ side clearance. The increase in compression measurement was notable, and so was the lack of hissing in the exhaust as compression leaked around the sides of the old ring. The engine started instantly and ran continuously once the side clearance issue was addressed WRT piston ring fit.

            You may need to investigate that part of your motor and measure the ring side clearance if you haven’t done so already. And if you have it apart, I’d suggest putting grease in your ring grooves and see how the engine reacts after that. Be ready for some acrid smoke if it does.

            Hope this helps.

            Best,
            PM T2

            He's livin' in his own private Idaho..... I hope to go out quietly in my sleep, like my grand-dad did..... and not screaming, like the passengers in his car...

            • This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by PM T2.
            #245637
            Buccaneer
            Participant

              US Member

              Prime Minister, you bring up a good point regarding compression.
              I never did check it when I went thru it two years ago, and as you say,
              even though it feels like plenty, it could be lacking.
              Perhaps I didn’t check it as because it takes an 1/2″ NPT plug, but I guess
              I could make an adapter easy enough.

              Oh, I tried pulling it thru compression, but that was much more painful on whatever
              “Itis” I have going on, and I’ve had a lot better results bouncing it off compression.
              To clarify, it’s a homemade timer I have mounted, not a magneto.

              Before the video I had it running “fast”, but not for real long, and once was in reverse! I thought maybe it
              wasn’t getting enough fuel, so I gave it more, but was kind of “down hill” from there.

              That said, here’s today’s adventure……

              https://youtu.be/rvZS3_57EgI

              Prepare to be boarded!

              #245642
              Bob Wight
              Participant

                US Member

                Pretty frustrating for sure, but sounds like you’re getting closer!

                Bob

                1937 Champion D2C Deluxe Lite Twin
                1954 Johnson CD-11
                1955 Johnson QD-16
                1957 Evinrude Fastwin 18
                1957 Evinrude 3022
                1958 Johnson QD-19
                1958 Johnson FD-12
                1959 Johnson QD-20

                “Every 20 minute job is only a broken bolt away from a 3-day project.”
                "Every time you remove a broken or seized bolt an angel gets his wings."

                #245673
                Tubs
                Participant



                  You’re really close and your video does show it will
                  start by bouncing it off of compression. Its hard to
                  suggest adjustments as I don’t know the ones your
                  making or experienced what have over the hours
                  you have spent on trying to get it started all ready.
                  However I will anyway. When it starts a 1:03 in the
                  video and you advance the timing a bit it runs to 1:08.
                  But I can see that the lever is dropping back down as
                  its running. When it starts the second time the lever
                  seems to drop down just a bit more. This suggests to
                  me that that it need a little more advance. I believe
                  if you had advanced the timing it would have sped
                  up and stayed running.You seem to be real close
                  on air / fuel as well for starting in the video.
                  I think – I’m sure you’re almost there.
                  Tubs

                  A "Boathouse Repair" is one that done without having tools or the skills to do it properly.

                  #245676
                  Buccaneer
                  Participant

                    US Member

                    Tubs, good observation on the advance lever moving. I have a string
                    of dimples drilled, and am using a spring and steel ball for a detent.
                    I loosened up the pressure on the detent previously so it was easier
                    to get out of design range on the timer. Guess I better try to snug it
                    back up. Every time I’ve got it started and advanced the timing,
                    to near TDC it has died on me. Every time I’ve kept my hands
                    off the timer, it’s died.

                    I cranked on it more last evening, experimenting, starting with the
                    fuel needle while it was shut off. It would not fire, so I’m hopefully that the needle
                    seats shut. I squirted some gas in the plug hole and tried again,
                    and it did fire. I keep tweaking the needle open a little at a time,
                    trying to get it to fire, and if it didn’t, I squirted gas in the plug hole,
                    to see if it would “catch”. I finally got to a point on the needle,
                    I think about 1/4 turn open, where it would fire without squirting
                    gas in the cylinder.
                    A few times I was hopeful that it would keep running, but it wasn’t to be.
                    If I opened the fuel valve any further, it wasn’t happy, and I had enough
                    of cranking.

                    Also last evening I made a 1/2″ pipe adapter for my compression gauge,
                    out of a 1/2″ pipe nipple and a 2″ 14mm extension that came with my gauge,
                    that I never used. Reamed the inside of the nipple out a tad, and inserted
                    the extension with some thread locker. If it’s cured this morning, I’ll
                    see what kind of compression I’m working with.

                    Prepare to be boarded!

                    #245713
                    Buccaneer
                    Participant

                      US Member

                      I checked compression this morning. The heavy coat of blue Loctite wasn’t cured yet,
                      but I tried it anyway.
                      After three pulls through compression, I had 45 psi compression. Gave it three more
                      for fun, and it read 48 psi.
                      Not sure if my pipe thread adapter was leaking or not, as I only had it screwed in
                      hand tight. I know the it “oozes” fuel around the spark plug threads a little, even when
                      wrench tightened.

                      No idea what it had for compression in the second decade of the 20th century, but
                      it is what it is, at least for now.

                      Tried starting it again with about the same results……. it want’s to run, but can’t
                      stay running long. 🙁

                      Prepare to be boarded!

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