1930 Johnson V-45 Crank Bearings

Home Forum Ask A Member 1930 Johnson V-45 Crank Bearings

Currently, there are 0 users and 1 guest visiting this topic.
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 21 total)

  • Buccaneer

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 6452
    Topics: 958
    #267483

    Powerhead on this project is laying on the workbench, awaiting my
    decision on how far to proceed.
    I know at least one of the compression relief valves are leaking through,
    so that needs addressed.

    After reading the page below in the service manual, where it mentions
    three different types of roller bearing cage assemblies were used
    in these motors, and that the wear usually occurs in the crankshaft,
    and must be replaced if worn………

    I’m not too hopeful about parts availability of just the roller bearings,
    let alone of a new crankshaft.
    Unless I find an obvious amount of rod bearing wear, would you
    just leave “Well enough Alone” and not tear into the crankcase?

    90% of my motors go for a boat ride or two, and back on the rack for
    eternity……. especially one this heavy!

    DSCN5093-1

    V45-Crankshaft-Bearings

    Prepare to be boarded!

    Attachments:

    Mumbles

    Canada Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 5624
    Topics: 294
    #267488

    I see the rod and cap are machined for alignment purposes as is done on later motors. You’re probably aware, but it’s always a good idea to check and record for future reference which surfaces are lined up on each assembly before taking them apart. This step is really important on later motors using rods which have been fractured. Sometimes, if the rod/cap have four machined surfaces, only three of them will be in perfect alignment with one of them having a bit of overhang. Reassembling them with the same surfaces in alignment will ensure the inner bearing surfaces are perfectly aligned. Here’s where a sharp dental pick comes in handy.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Mumbles.
    • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Mumbles.
    • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Mumbles.

    Buccaneer

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 6452
    Topics: 958
    #267502

    Mumbles, I always mark the rod caps, if not done already, before taking them
    apart, so I don’t get them on 180 out of whack.
    The manual seems to suggest that the rod and cap mate perfectly for the sake
    of the roller bearings inside.
    Haven’t decided yet if I’m tearing into the rod bearings.
    Right now, trying to get the port head off so I can inspect the compression relief valves.
    Thanks for the heads up!

    Prepare to be boarded!


    stanley

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 524
    Topics: 108
    #267522

    Those bearing cages and rollers were used on a bunch of early Jonson engines.I replaced the rollers on a S45 and had no problem finding new ones.


    Buccaneer

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 6452
    Topics: 958
    #267524

    Those bearing cages and rollers were used on a bunch of early Jonson engines.I replaced the rollers on a S45 and had no problem finding new ones.

    Stanley, are you saying you found brand new rollers to put in the old cages,
    or replaced the bearings assemblies from another motor?

    The part that worries me, as stated in the manual, is that most of the
    wear will take place on the crankshaft, instead of the bearing rollers.
    Thanks.

    Prepare to be boarded!


    stanley

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 524
    Topics: 108
    #267532

    I used new rollers and cages.The crankshafts wear and there is not much you can do about that without finding a better one.But the cages and rollers also wear and those can be replaced.So,back to your original question,if it’s going to keep you from sleeping at night,tear it down and check the crank.


    Buccaneer

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 6452
    Topics: 958
    #267533

    I used new rollers and cages.The crankshafts wear and there is not much you can do about that without finding a better one.But the cages and rollers also wear and those can be replaced.So,back to your original question,if it’s going to keep you from sleeping at night,tear it down and check the crank.

    Thanks Stanley, no idea how you found new bearings for a 90 yr old
    antique, but I’ll look up the parts numbers tonight for kicks!

    Prepare to be boarded!


    stanley

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 524
    Topics: 108
    #267537

    Search the roller dimensions.I’m pretty sure the rollers and cages I found were actually listed as Harley Davidson parts.


    Buccaneer

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 6452
    Topics: 958
    #267538

    Search the roller dimensions.I’m pretty sure the rollers and cages I found were actually listed as Harley Davidson parts.

    Interesting about Harley Davidson parts!
    Being that Johnson used three different size / style bearings and cages,
    it’s going to be hard to research what size I would need, unless I
    take it all apart first. I’m on day two and still trying to get the port head off!

    Prepare to be boarded!


    george-emmanuel

    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 469
    Topics: 35
    #267798

    OK,–So, there were several variations of cages and roller length. There were the bronze (Harley Davidson) type that used the short rollers, and the streel cages that used the longer rollers, both of which are available. The problem with the crank came from the short rollers and that they ran them loose. That, coupled with over-propped, made the engine lug and it beat the crank causing a groove in the center of the crankpin. The short rollers with the bronze, thick cages, didn’t allow the roller to cover the full area of the crankpin.

    Bill Salisbury is the one who studied all this and had oversized (larger diameter) rollers made. He would then assemble a rod in incremental stages to the point the rod would get tight, then back of in sizes so there was free movement. Sometimes it required different sized rollers per crankpin.

    Chances are, if your motor has the longer rollers, that the crank is OK. If so try increasing the roller diameter .005 and see how it feels. I can tell you all the S/V engines I’ve done needed oversized rollers, and when you got it right, that motor would be smooth! Once finished, check rpm”s and if it isn’t reaching full rpm’s, go to less prop.

    I think those engines got a bad rap simply because they were over-propped from the factory for light boats and were used on heavier boats.

    George


    Buccaneer

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 6452
    Topics: 958
    #267816

    George, thanks for the informational reply on the bearings.
    I didn’t even know a person could purchase individual, oversized rollers.
    I’ll have to do an Internet search for those, just in case.

    My problem right now, is that I can’t even get the port head off to check out
    the compression relief valves. It’s stuck on the studs and won’t budge after
    several days of trying all kinds of magic.

    I suppose, if I wanted to get into the crankcase, I could remove the cylinders
    with the head attached, correct?
    Thanks!

    Prepare to be boarded!


    george-emmanuel

    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 469
    Topics: 35
    #267870

    I’ve dealt with this before and it is aggravating to say the least. Yes, remove the cylinder/ head assembly and try a wood dowel from inside the bore to tap the head off. If you can get a little movement, then work it in and out going from one bore to the other. The problem is corrosion around the head studs has locked the heads in place. Usually whatever penetrating oil you use won’t get past the corrosion until you get a little movement. Heads are scarce, so take your time and work carefully.

    George


    Buccaneer

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 6452
    Topics: 958
    #267879

    I’ve dealt with this before and it is aggravating to say the least. Yes, remove the cylinder/ head assembly and try a wood dowel from inside the bore to tap the head off. If you can get a little movement, then work it in and out going from one bore to the other. The problem is corrosion around the head studs has locked the heads in place. Usually whatever penetrating oil you use won’t get past the corrosion until you get a little movement. Heads are scarce, so take your time and work carefully.

    George

    Thanks George, I may yet try removing the cylinder with the head still attached.
    The powerhead is still hanging from my engine crane via the head.
    Brass punch and hammer on the studs did nothing, nor the air hammer
    on the studs. The last two days I’ve ignored the powerhead while I worked
    on other components, but did spray some more penetrating oil on the studs.

    DSCN5097-1

    Prepare to be boarded!

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by Buccaneer.
    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by Buccaneer.
    Attachments:

    bobw

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 2116
    Topics: 52
    #267884

    Buc – if you have some, you might also try soaking the head studs with Evaporust.   On my FD-12 project, I found that seemed to work better than penetrating oils in finally breaking loose the bad corrosion and wicking down into the threads on my broken exhaust cover screws.

    Bob

    1937 Champion D2C Deluxe Lite Twin
    1954 Johnson CD-11
    1957 Evinrude Fastwin 18
    1958 Johnson QD-19
    1958 Johnson FD-12
    1959 Johnson QD-20

    “Every 20 minute job is only a broken bolt away from a 3-day project.”


    Buccaneer

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 6452
    Topics: 958
    #267887

    Buc – if you have some, you might also try soaking the head studs with Evaporust.   On my FD-12 project, I found that seemed to work better than penetrating oils in finally breaking loose the bad corrosion and wicking down into the threads on my broken exhaust cover screws.

    I thought about trying other substances around the studs.
    I wonder if it’s “rust” on the steel studs, or aluminum corrosion
    cementing the head on, and what would be the best snake oil
    for the later? Caustic?

    Hopefully none of the harsh chemicals would make it’s way
    into the cylinder before I got the head off.
    I have some phosphoric acid, which I could try around the center
    studs, as the head is counterbored there and any fluid can’t escape.
    Thanks.

    Prepare to be boarded!

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 21 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.