Home Forum Ask A Member 1948 Gale Hiawatha 5HP

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  • #212817
    NBD925
    Participant

      US Member

      Wow, ok that could be a problem. Your part even has the same part number cast into the cover plate. I wonder if a lip seal of the correct size would work.

      If not can anyone suggest some motor models to search for on eBay so I can find the correct part to replace this one I have.

      #212826
      NBD925
      Participant

        US Member

        Ok I was able to find a new cover on eBay using the part number. It looks like the bronze bushing is actually some type of phenolic material.

        Here are some pictures. I will check some of the other issues tonight but this is one more step that should help some with my pressure problems.

        #212892
        Ed@deathwish-outboards
        Participant

          US Member

          My first outboard back around 1964 was a maroon and silver Wards 5hp Sea King about the same vintage and basically the same as yours and with the same problem. I tried to order new parts for the pump with no luck and just as I was about to give up I tried one more thing. Mine had a plate or shim about 1/32″ thick with the same profile as the pump rubber. It installed between the rubber and the cover plate #22. This plate had a lot of wear around the prop shaft so I laid it on a piece of steel and peined it with a hammer around the shaft hole until it no longer fit. Then with a file and emery cloth wrapped around a drill bit I started reforming the hole until it fit nice and snug. That did the trick and it ran all summer long until I traded it. At that time I had no diagrams or manuals to go by so the plate I described may have been someone else’s quick fix.
          You won’t see this pissing a steady stream it more like spits water and mist out the exhaust. I have since picked up two of those sea kings as well as a Sea Bee and about a 1952 Sea King. The 1952 version has the pump with an impeller on the driveshaft. The others I have not had apart yet to see exactly what they have in the pump department but I do expect them to have water problems.

          #213217
          NBD925
          Participant

            US Member

            I’m still waiting on that new pump cover and I have not had time to get out to the boat shed yet. I haven’t forgot. I’ll keep everyone informed when I get the parts in.

            #213768
            NBD925
            Participant

              US Member

              Update: I got the pump cover plate. I installed the part and pressure and volume seem to have increased. I tested with the drill on the power unit and it was actually pumping water well before I hit top speed on the drill. This was an improvement.

              I put everything back together and did a test. The head still got too hot. It was burn your hand hot Within less than a minute especially the exhaust side. I decided to pull the lower unit off and test the head with a hose again. It passed! I was able to run the motor as log as I wanted while the hose was pushing water up from the lower stem. That eliminates A blockage in the engine cooling passages and head. I checked for the plug (green part on the previous post picture). It was installed!

              Then I decided to put the lower unit back on. I removed the prop down to bare shaft. Tested the pump. Still the same. That eliminated the prop and it’s parts.

              Then I put the Water hose to the pump inlet. Just to give it a boost. Same result, Hot head!

              Then I took the pump cover plate off and took out the pump and eccentric cam. I cut a small piece of hose and put one end in the pump outlet hole going up the lower unit and the Other end was connected to the hose. Very light water pressure and amount was applied and the engine was started. The head was cool to the touch for almost as long as I ran it.

              Result: the pump is not pumping enough water pressure or maybe volume. The pump rubber is new and the pump cover is new. I might need a new pump housing. Do the eccentric cams go bad? It seems like the cam would not get any wear at all.

              Any other ideas? At least, I have it narrowed down to this pump section.

              The new cover did help though. That fiber center Portion is needed! That was a great catch.

              #213776
              frankr
              Participant

                US Member

                Well hold up here. If memory is correct, the head around the spark plugs is not water cooled, and will get hot.

                The exhaust cover also will get hot. There is fire behind the bulge.

                You may not have a problem.

                5hp-exhaust

                • This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by frankr.
                • This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by frankr.
                #213782
                NBD925
                Participant

                  US Member

                  Frank, I thought this as well but when I have water getting to the head it stays cool in those areas and not searing hot. I can hold my have on there while running between slow and start on the throttle control. Also when I put hose water in the pump outlet hole (pump removed) it was the first time while running, I got water to spit out the slit in that lower unit portion. It was spitting water like some of the videos I have seen of these motors running. Any other time I run this motor water has never come out of that slit.

                  #216723
                  NBD925
                  Participant

                    US Member

                    Update: I finally got all my parts in the mail today. I ordered a new pump housing #590018. Mine was pitted.

                    I ordered a new gasket #550108 for the pump housing. Mine was ripped.

                    I also ordered #550107 a new rubber sealing washer for the rear of the pump housing. This keeps the water out of the gears.

                    As with everything in this cooling system there were odd parts that should not have been there and extra items too! Found an extra o-ring and flat rubber washer, larger than the correct sized one from the manual. I reviewed the manual and parts diagrams and figured out what I was missing and what was worn out and replaced everything. I reassembled the lower unit and new items in correct order. I tested the result with a drill and got only a slight increase.

                    I Reassembled the lower unit to the head and still no water spitting out the slit. Very disappointed, I tested again with the water hose. It took only a slight pressure and the head would start cooling. But only one cover would stay cool, not the exhaust side.

                    I decided the pump was not putting out enough pressure because with an increase of hose water pressure I could keep things cool and get water out of the slit. I needed more pressure so, I decided to wrap The eccentric cam with electrical tape. It was my hope this would increase the diameter and the pressure it applied to the sides of the pump housing. This worked amazing. More than doubled the water output. Could I have a bad eccentric Cam or was it worn out perhaps? Knowing this engine, the cam might be homemade. I ordered a new Cam too. #550085.

                    Very hopeful, with the new water pressure fix, I reassembled everything and tested. One cover stayed cool, very little heat, this was an improvement in cooling but The exhaust side was still burn your hand hot, almost instantly, no change from before.

                    Drastic measures were needed. I was getting frustrated.

                    What I know: The cooling water splits in the lower manifold at the bottoms of the motor and goes up each side of the head with internal passages. One side of the head was staying cool, so I decided to bite the bullet and take the cover off the exhaust side that would never get cool. I broke 4 of the 7 cover screws, right at the head, using the impact screwdriver. The cover was hard to get removed. Once I did the problem was clear as day!

                    See photos below.

                    This motor must have been left in salt water or something. The Crust and decay was amazing. Almost completely blocked all the passages.

                    I was able to get the broken screws out with lots of time and heat. This huge blockage was the problem, along with all the random backyard fixes other owners had tried in order to fix the cooling problem. The water was pumping up into the head but taking the path of least resistance. All my fixes improved the flow and pressure but not enough to get through the blockages, Never cooling the exhaust side. There is water flowing behind this exhaust cover and fire too!

                    I need to find at least 4 cover screws. Can anyone help me with that? I can’t find them.

                    What is the best method to seal this cover back on? There has to be a method.

                    I noticed my eccentric cam was not as eccentric as the original offerings on eBay so I’m sure that was a huge part of the pressure problem as well. Frank you might have spotted this early on and commented on the extra daylight seen in my first pump photos. I think the cam was home made or badly worn out somehow.

                    • This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by NBD925.
                    • This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by NBD925.
                    #216743
                    labrador-guy
                    Participant

                      US Member - 2 Years

                      Wow you sure have a mess there! Glad to hear you got those broken bolts out. If you have a Fastenal store by you they usually have those bolts. I think they are called Fillisterhead bolts. You can use allen head bolts but those are not original. I have a 1945 SeaKing 5hp, I need to get it out one of these days.

                      dale

                      • This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by labrador-guy.
                      #216854
                      NBD925
                      Participant

                        US Member

                        Can anyone help me with sealing the cylinder cover. Has anyone found something that worked. I was going to try Permatex Aviation Gasket Sealer.

                        Any suggestions. Any idea what the manufactures used?

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