June 10, 2021 at 9:33 pm #239940
Yes, both coils look pretty new and identical. Almost all the wiring inside looks new… except the one fabric covered wire from one of the coils.
The spark plug wires do “look” oldish…. whatever that means… they have a bunch of nicks on them, no real writing of any kind, and oxidized. I tend to not want to replace something especially if expect it to be working…. I don’t know that I want to just go replacing coils/condensers/etc given that they all look new and don’t know they are actually broke…. althou maybe the plug wires and one coil wire that look 60 years old are due for updating?
No I don’t have an OMC specific flywheel puller, thought I could retrofit one of my pullers to bolt into the three bolts and pull against the center flywheel bolt…. the “old outboard” book I have talks about pulling up on the flywheel with hand while tapping on center puller applying some pressure on it. Book has some OMC/Evinrude service bulletins in it with 60s style helpful pictures along with tips on handling the flywheel key on reinstall.
On the throttle cam, the way you explained it is what I now understand, there were some early comments I saw about it having to do something with where “start” is on the handle. Sounds like it currently is running a bit rich off idle, not by much but is some. I can see that the butterfly shaft does start turning before the mark bisects the roller.
Hard to get good pictures of some of the dark areas with the phone… the bite out of the spark plug wire does look pretty decent where it rubs and yes it looks difficult to prevent it from rubbing… there doesn’t seem to be much clearance where it needs to come out of the plate at an angle and make the turn going down at WOT. The little plastic wire covers crosbyman has in his attachments look pretty effective thou?
In other thoughts, checking the bleeder looks like I need to pull the entire carb off…there a gasket around this that will need replacing or carefully pulling can be reused? I suspicion looking at this….June 10, 2021 at 9:38 pm #239941
CAREFULlY pop the carb back plate…I have never broken a gasket yet and I reused all of them
careful not do damage the reeds on the purge valve !!
as to condensers … very basic tests (ohms and capacitance kicks) can prove them bad but basic tests can never simulate life high voltage operation only a condenser tester can do that.
in other words you can test for bad ones but you can’t fully test for good ones with just a VOM
see parts 1-4 on condensers…
Joining AOMCI has priviledges 🙂
US Member - 2 Years
Topics: 41June 10, 2021 at 10:17 pm #239947
OK, well if both the coils look new, I don’t know what the fabric covered wire could be…Newer coils do not use fabric covered wires…Does this engine have some sort of external stop/safety switch added, perhaps that is the fabric covered wire… You can try using a generic puller with the three bolts going into the flywheel holes…Perhaps the flywheel won’t put up a fight and pop off….But, if it doesn’t want to give up/come off easily, don’t keep wrestling with the generic set up…The bolts will probably snap off and you could get hurt. Sometimes using an impact gun on the center puller bolt helps pop the flywheel off…But again, I wouldn’t go digging into the ignition system until you confirm you have an actual ignition issue. Ripping things apart like this usually ends up adding to confusion and possibly creates new problems…Save the ignition overhaul for winter work unless you confirm there is an ignition issue now. .
Again, the roller might start to turn before the mark bisects the roller, but that does not mean the throttle shaft is actually starting to move/open…There is a lot of slop in that linkage. So, seeing the roller start to turn slightly before the cam bisects the roller sounds correct….Watch the actual throttle shaft and see when it actually starts to move, I’m betting it is fairly close to being correctly set…In any event, even if the adjustment is off a bit, this not going to make the plugs foul. And again, if the carb butterfly is opening too early, this usually has the effect of “lean off idle”, not rich….I know this seems counter intuitive, but is true…But, it is important to note that the carb butterfly must be completely closed at idle speed.June 11, 2021 at 7:37 am #239958
the closed carb butterfly concentrates the crankcase vacum pull on the carb idle circuit located on top where fuel drops down 3 VERY small holes. They must be clean and the only way to clean the idle circuit properly is to remove the top plug, clean the chamber and reinstall a new plug .
Joining AOMCI has priviledges 🙂July 24, 2021 at 11:24 pm #243598
Had to deal with a few other projects, but back at this one.
I’ve pulled the flywheel, it has one newer German coil. Meter reads out 1.5/6.5k and is the top cylinder coil which has no problems.The other coil has an outlined M on it, looks older, fabric sheathed wires, no obvious cracks. It tests out 1.5 on primary and secondary 9/10 times doesn’t register but I can scratch on the wire pin and very inconsistently get a read out of 3.5k.
I did buy 2 new coils (cdi brand 183-4477) and used 1 to replace the bad coil and the new coil doesn’t spark. Both New cdi coils read out with 1.5/8.3k with multimeter so it seems it should work? I swapped the top/bottom coils and the German coil which was on top now successfully fires the bottom plug. I bought 2 just in case 1 was bad so I’ll try the other new cdi coil tomorrow. Skeptical thou? The laminations are definitely shorter, the leg going thru the windings is smaller. Seems like others have success with this model coil thou? Am I missing something?
US Member - 1 Year
Topics: 48July 25, 2021 at 12:23 am #243600
I’ve used the CDI coils on a couple motors with no problems, but I don’t remember what readings I got out of them.
1937 Champion D2C Deluxe Lite Twin
1954 Johnson CD-11
1957 Evinrude Fastwin 18
1958 Johnson QD-19
1959 Johnson QD-20
“Every 20 minute job is only a broken bolt away from a 3-day project.”July 25, 2021 at 3:16 pm #243634
I think it’s just a matter of how fast I could turn the flywheel by hand. The German coil sparks turning by hand. I put the recoil rope on and the CDI does spark it just requires more speed. I went ahead ran new wires, adjusted points and gonna put it back togetherJuly 28, 2021 at 7:27 pm #243824
Just wanted to wrap up this thread, I took boat out yesterday and ran very well… mostly putting around at low speed to fish/troll for a few hours. Fouling/noSpark issue on bottom cylinder gone. Think it’s slow speed is better than I’ve had it before. Tick tick tick about 1mph.
Mission accomplished. New cdi coil, new plug wires, new plugs, and points timed off marks with multimeter.July 28, 2021 at 10:25 pm #243841
thanks for your great feedback
did you ever get to clean out the crankcase drain which was a suspect problem causing the fouling or do you think it was just poor ignition ?
Joining AOMCI has priviledges 🙂July 29, 2021 at 9:14 pm #243929
I think it was just sketchy ignition, visual signs seemed to point that direction. Good to know about the crankcase drain thou, I’ll touch it if I get a reason to do something with the carb. Still learning how to work these models, ran a 1958 Johnson 18hp that gpa worked on when I was a kid but wasn’t allowed to wrench on it. I’m using this one for practice 😉 Plan on rehabbing the 58 this winter.July 29, 2021 at 9:17 pm #243930
Probably overkill, but here’s my flywheel puller plate
US Member - 2 Years
Topics: 41July 30, 2021 at 12:09 pm #243967
Probably overkill, but here’s my flywheel puller plate
Well, it might look like overkill, but those big flywheels/tapers are a mighty tight fit…..The OMC puller/hardware should really be used for these larger flywheels. Please make sure the flywheel is properly torqued also…Don’t just use an impact gun….After all this, you sure don’t want the key to shear, mess up the crank/flywheel tapers, and lose ignition….
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