Home Forum Ask A Member 1956 Johnson 30hp Motor Won’t start But Spark Plugs have Spark!

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  • #320432
    rhalbert10@outlook.com
    Participant

      US Member

      This is my 1956 Johnson Javelin 30HP motor on my runabout.  Apologies in advance of the long post – I wanted to try and give as much of my experience as possible to “paint the picture”

      • Started this season off solid – multiple rips to water, tuned my high throttle nicely and everything seemed to be running just fine.
      • Opening Day here in Seattle in early May – out on boat waiting for others.  Stopped boat for a while, restarted fine.  Motor died while traveling slow.  Could not start the boat and eventually needed a tow to the boat ramp.
      • Tested spark plugs – no spark on lower spark plug.
      • Took flywheel off this weekend – replaced points and condensers.  Coils tested out fine with Ohm Meter so left in place.
      • BUT!!!! The “key” on the flywheel stem was sheared in half!!  (this, *I think* explained some slippage I felt on the water occasionally and the fact that my top speed after tuning was 5-6 miles slower than usual)  Got a replacement key and then got flywheel reinstalled. I did find that a chard of the key was touching the stem and the magneto assembly and thought maybe there was some short…
      • Tested magneto with spark plug testers and both were firing great so headed to the water today…
      • Was not able to start the engine except by using starter into the carb.  Was able to get it started and idle for 5 minutes.  Cut engine, tried to restart and no bueno.  Tried more starter fluid, got some pops but never got it running again for any period of time.
      • Headed home – tested spark plug /magneto and got a spark on both.  Then tested both spark plugs and got a spark on both of those as well.  Took flywheel off again to examine magneto.  One of the points connections was off-parallel so I replaced that one so that it had a very even gap (could this have been the issue?!!! – Does not feel like it…).  Set gaps to speck and put flywheel back on.
      • The last thing I noticed was that after everything was installed. there was a little “play” of the magneto assembly if I put my fingers under the flywheel and lifted – just a little but did not remember ever feeling that before.

      In the spirit of spark + fuel + oxygen, I feel the spark side of things is really good.  The other 2 I am way less confident on how to diagnose.  Any guidance from this esteemed group would be much appreciated.

      Many thanks in advance.

      Best,

      Rich

      #320448
      Buccaneer
      Participant

        US Member

        “Google” using starting fluid on a 2-cycle engine.

        Is this motor using the original “pressure tank” setup?

        I would suspect a fuel supply issue.

        Prepare to be boarded!

        #320455
        JACQUES
        Participant

          starting relies heavily on the LS carb circuit and anything can mess it up… have you re cleaned the carb since  the problem came up ?

           

          got your bible… free download .. just store  print bind locally

          https://www.socalaomci.com/library/johnson_service_manual_10th_edition.pdf

           

          Joining AOMCI has priviledges 🙂

          #320457
          labrador-guy
          Participant

            US MEMBER PAY BY CHECK

            This is my 1956 Johnson Javelin 30HP motor on my runabout.  Apologies in advance of the long post – I wanted to try and give as much of my experience as possible to “paint the picture”

            • Started this season off solid – multiple rips to water, tuned my high throttle nicely and everything seemed to be running just fine.
            • Opening Day here in Seattle in early May – out on boat waiting for others.  Stopped boat for a while, restarted fine.  Motor died while traveling slow.  Could not start the boat and eventually needed a tow to the boat ramp.
            • Tested spark plugs – no spark on lower spark plug.
            • Took flywheel off this weekend – replaced points and condensers.  Coils tested out fine with Ohm Meter so left in place.
            • BUT!!!! The “key” on the flywheel stem was sheared in half!!  (this, *I think* explained some slippage I felt on the water occasionally and the fact that my top speed after tuning was 5-6 miles slower than usual)  Got a replacement key and then got flywheel reinstalled. I did find that a chard of the key was touching the stem and the magneto assembly and thought maybe there was some short…
            • Tested magneto with spark plug testers and both were firing great so headed to the water today…
            • Was not able to start the engine except by using starter into the carb.  Was able to get it started and idle for 5 minutes.  Cut engine, tried to restart and no bueno.  Tried more starter fluid, got some pops but never got it running again for any period of time.
            • Headed home – tested spark plug /magneto and got a spark on both.  Then tested both spark plugs and got a spark on both of those as well.  Took flywheel off again to examine magneto.  One of the points connections was off-parallel so I replaced that one so that it had a very even gap (could this have been the issue?!!! – Does not feel like it…).  Set gaps to speck and put flywheel back on.
            • The last thing I noticed was that after everything was installed. there was a little “play” of the magneto assembly if I put my fingers under the flywheel and lifted – just a little but did not remember ever feeling that before.

            In the spirit of spark + fuel + oxygen, I feel the spark side of things is really good.  The other 2 I am way less confident on how to diagnose.  Any guidance from this esteemed group would be much appreciated.

            Many thanks in advance.

            Best,

            Rich

            Well I don’t know about an “esteemed group”!   Most of us struggle just like you.   We have all learned from doing.  Fuel, spark and compression and its gotta run!

            dale

            #320472
            Tubs
            Participant

              It best not to use starting fluid as it doesn’t have oil in it. It been posted that there is starting fluid with oil in it, but no picture, or link was ever provided. I use fuel mix in one of those 4 oz. bottles, with the cap from a gear oil bottle, to inject fuel into a motor.  

              Bottle

              A "Boathouse Repair" is one thats done without having tools or the skills to do it properly.

              #320474
              Don
              Participant

                US Member

                Like others have said, try removing the plugs, squirting some fuel/oil mix directly into the cylinders (do not use starting fluid), to see if the engine will fire briefly.

                You mentioned a sheared flywheel key, that is not good.  Usually, the mating tapers get galled up when a flywheel key shears.  Be sure to properly torque the flywheel nut, you may need to lap the flywheel/crank tapers to get the proper fit.  But, if you have spark, then the flywheel key is not sheared now..

                #320477
                JACQUES
                Participant

                  chat reply…

                  Yes. There are some starting fluids that contain an upper-cylinder lubricant to reduce the “dry wash” effect that plain ether-based starting fluid can cause.

                  Examples include:

                  • Johnsen’s Premium Starting Fluid with Lubricity Additive
                  • STA-BIL Starting Fluid with upper-cylinder lubricant
                  • Some diesel-specific starting aids contain lubricating oil additives

                  However, even these products provide only a very small amount of lubrication. They are not a substitute for the normal oil film supplied by the engine’s fuel/oil system.

                  For a 2-stroke outboard such as a Johnson, Evinrude, or E-TEC, many mechanics prefer:

                  • Premixed fuel sprayed into the intake.
                  • A fogging oil spray.
                  • A small amount of 2-stroke oil mixed with gasoline in a spray bottle.

                  These methods provide much better lubrication than ether-based starting fluid.

                  Joining AOMCI has priviledges 🙂

                  #320498
                  rhalbert10@outlook.com
                  Participant

                    US Member

                    Thanks for all of the replies!

                    • Thanks for the advice on the starter fluid.  I had never used it before but will explore these alternatives now.
                    • I do have the Service Manual and Repair Manual for this motor.  It has been invaluable on servicing the magneto but it all seems so overwhelming when it gets to the carburetor
                    • I did just order a compression tester so I can see where that is at.
                    • I moved to a new fuel pump (Sierra 18-7351) a couple of years ago.  That made a huge difference at the time.
                    • I have never touched the carburetor since we had the motor completely rebuilt 5 years ago.
                    • And I do not play a Johnson outboard mechanic on TV…

                    Appreciate all the direction.  Chugga, chugga!

                     

                    Rich

                    #320521
                    JACQUES
                    Participant

                      carbs are not overwhelming… just a bowl, inlet needle/float  passages and holes to keep open  and metering needles.  Main thing is to  seal the needles with proper packing  and adjust by the book ….with final tune up on the water !

                      RD-series-carb-bugs

                      Joining AOMCI has priviledges 🙂

                      #320598
                      rhalbert10@outlook.com
                      Participant

                        US Member

                        Everyone talks about using a torque wrench on the flywheel nut.  I have looked into it and it says for my motor it should be 720-780 in/lbs but I can’t even find a wrench that goes that high.  Any suggestions?

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