Home Forum Ask A Member 1960 Evinrude Fisherman stalling

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  • #325350
    Don
    Participant

      US Member

      Thanks for your reply Don. There are two colors of paint on the engine. A light blue and a dark blue. The dark blue is what’s visible in the photograph of the fuel pump. The engine model number is 5520, and according to information from marineengine.com, was made in 1960. Not sure how much difference that makes.

      Try to post a picture of the entire engine showing the different colors, perhaps someone swapped the powerhead with the 1959 engine.  Like others have said, a 1960 Fisherman would have a mounting port for a conventional OMC fuel pump on the starboard side of the powerhead.

      #325363
      kmead
      Participant

        Here’s a photo of the starboard side. I’m not sure if there’s a mounting place for an original fuel pump or not. You can see the two different colors, light blue and dark blue.

        #325375
        JACQUES
        Participant

          mikuni on a FD …  buy thereal thing if worried  and want to install… up to u

           

          see  FREE service manual for oldies ….see PH section explains purge valve.. dowload  – print locally double sided pages & bind.   contains ALL you need to service oldies

          https://www.socalaomci.com/library/johnson_service_manual_10th_edition.pdf

          Joining AOMCI has priviledges 🙂

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          #325403
          kmead
          Participant

            Thanks Jacques. The photos are very helpful. I do have the digital Johnson manual, and also an Evinrude manual, which as a novice I have found helpful because it contains my exact engine.
            https://watercraftmanuals.com/outboard/evinrude/1950-1963.htm

            #325409
            JACQUES
            Participant

              I have modfied a few  by filling the right side channel  and removing  the flapper valve but that procedure apparently  limits the purging of excess fuel oil in the corresponding crankcase half . I resold all those engines and never realy used a modified one much…incl the fD pictured above.  Did not know thay  had the Evinrude version of the Johnson bible but being close cousins I have always used the johnson one.  Good to know !

              Can’t say purging or lack of is the problem but the book covers the need to clear out the side purge drain  (while in there doing the  pump mod).

              HOW TO CONVERT 50s motors from two line tanks – YouTube

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              #325416
              Don
              Participant

                US Member

                OK, your picture shows that someone used a 1959 powerhead on a 1960 engine.  No provision for a fuel pump.  They may not have realized that there was no provision for a fuel pump when they made the swap until the job was almost done, then they attempted to plumb in that fuel pump.   The intake manifold from a 1960 fisherman may not even had the pressure port nipple.  If the provision for the nipple was there, perhaps they did not make the necessary alterations inside that Jaques has pointed out…

                So tell us, just where is the pressure line for this fuel pump plumbed into?

                #325418
                kmead
                Participant

                  The pressure line is attached to the lower port side of the intake manifold as shown in this photo that I took during disassembly.
                  Also included is a photo from the Evinrude manual, for 1960 model, which identifies the part as number 4, air line connector.

                  #325424
                  Bob Wight
                  Participant

                    US Member

                    With the difference in colors between the engine block and the intake manifold, that looks like a 1959 block with a 1957 manifold on it. The manifold looks like the ’57 polychromatic blue color versus the ’59 fathom blue on the block.

                    Bob

                    1937 Champion D2C Deluxe Lite Twin
                    1954 Johnson CD-11
                    1955 Johnson QD-16
                    1957 Evinrude Fastwin 18
                    1957 Evinrude 3022
                    1958 Johnson QD-19
                    1958 Johnson FD-12
                    1959 Johnson QD-20
                    1982 Evinrude 25hp

                    “Every 20 minute job is only a broken bolt away from a 3-day project.”
                    "Every time you remove a broken or seized bolt an angel gets his wings."

                    #325428
                    JACQUES
                    Participant

                      External pumps work by getting a pressure pulse. Since on a pre-60 engine  both crankcase  provide a pressure pulse  and each pulse is kept separate by the flapper valves….. allows air pressure to exit via the  nipple and pressurize  the  2 line  fuel tank.  Hand priming only serves to fill the carb so theengine can run a few minutes to pressurize the tank to force fuel back up the fuel side hose !

                      To run an external pump  using a sinlgle line hose one crankcase chamber’s downstroke pressure  is used hence the need to block out one channel otherwise the pressurized air would uturn into the other crankcase  half section .

                      The accepted notion  here is that gluing up one channel as per the viedo impairs the ability of the crankcase’s accumulated fuel-oil to be dumped out the purge valve. This juice can be  burnt off with WOT runs to create   in flow turbulance  in the   now  ” sealed” crankcase.

                      Using rubber caps like in the video allows proper drainage  of fuel oil residue and is probabaly the best way to go.

                      All this to say some  do like two line operation .

                       

                      here is an interesting article of  keeping sludge out of the lakes

                      Joining AOMCI has priviledges 🙂

                      #325435
                      Don
                      Participant

                        US Member

                        The pressure line is attached to the lower port side of the intake manifold as shown in this photo that I took during disassembly.
                        Also included is a photo from the Evinrude manual, for 1960 model, which identifies the part as number 4, air line connector.

                        We need to clarify a few things here.  First, the 1960 models did not use that pressure outlet nipple because they were set up for a single line tank with a fuel pump, the fuel pump was mounted directly to the crankcase off one of the cylinders on the stbd side of the block.   So, if that pressure outlet nipple was actually there on a 1960 model, it was capped off from the factory.  So, perhaps that manifold was from an older model engine (pre 58 judging by the color).   It is possible that OMC used up old stock in 1960 using the older style manifold, but they most likely would have removed that nipple and installed a threaded plug.  If they left the nipple in place, they would have capped it off somehow.

                        The next thing we need to talk about is that the OMC external fuel pumps operated off pressure and vacuum pulses coming from the crankcase, these opposite forces worked on the fuel pump diaphragm to move it in and out.   The two line pressure tanks operated off just pressure pulses to inject air into the tank (pressurizing it) to force fuel out of the tank up through the lines and into the carb.  This was accomplished by the use of two rubber check valves that allowed pressure out of the crankcase, but did not allow vacuum pulses to get by the check valves…  So, the reed plate/check valves must be modified if you want to get pressure and vacuum pulses out of that nipple on the manifold.   The fuel pump will not work/properly if it is just connected to that pressure nipple on the manifold without the proper internal modifications.   Perhaps this was done, perhaps it wasn’t, perhaps it wasn’t done correctly.  Perhaps there is just some confusion over “terms”.   All I am saying is that you need to remove the intake manifold to check and make sure the proper modifications were made.   It is also possible that that hose connected to that nipple is too large (ID) and is leaking, perhaps on both ends…  Seeing the hose connected with a worm clamp leads me to believe there is a poor fit that someone has tried to correct by cranking down on a worm clamp.  So, perhaps that fuel pump isn’t working effectively because it isn’t receiving the right/strong enough pressure/vacuum pulses.   Perhaps there is an air leak in the fuel inlet system, poor fitting hoses, bad connections, leaky fuel tank pick up, or perhaps the fuel tank isn’t venting properly.

                        I know I have said I don’t like the fuel pump set up, but that doesn’t mean that the aftermarket fuel pump is to blame.

                        I will have to review this thread to see if someone posted the directions/pictures on proper manifold/reed plate alterations that have to be made before a single line fuel pump system can be used on one of these engines that does not have the conventional intake bypass covers.

                        Later….  OK, I watched the one youtube video in this post describing the needed alterations to the reed plate.  I think there are neater ways to do this but the theory is correct.   Both of the rubber pressure valves must be removed.  One of the ports must be plugged, so that cylinder is no longer adding any sort of pulses to the cavity.  The hole for the other cylinder must be left open so that pressure and vacuum pulses are directed out of the manifold nipple through the pulse hose to the fuel pump.

                        So, you must check your reed plate to make sure this type of modification has been made.

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