Home Forum Ask A Member '65 BigTwin 40hp 1/2 spark

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  • #175222
    rapier
    Participant

      Thanks..The same plug that sparks on the lower is used on the top (and I’ve tested a few others…new and old)..

      Hope the pics are OK – for some reason the facilty wasn’t there when I posted the other night…

      I have completely removed the kill circuit wires, just had no idea what was going on under there with the flywheel on, so needed them out the equation for the time being.

      The smooth HT wire shown in the pic is my replacement (changed over to be upper, has the ali ‘top’ tag attached.

      Still getting 7-8 OHms on each new coil, new points set to 020 and clean, new J4Cs set to 030. Flywheel magnet appears strong. Mag plate can be eaten off. Both HT leads were scrubbed clean and checked. New capacitors fitted.

      So, perhaps the Zhongfadz coil is suspect, but a. I’ve swapped them over and always got a spark on the bottom pot b. it’s reading is in line.

      Or it’s positioning could be out, but the heels are pushed right back inline with the plate & the coil worked on the bottom. Points are Turkish made, but OEM I think.

      Unless anyone has another option, I have new OMC coils I can try today and an indeterminate age 40hp Johnson’s mag plate I know was working last summer…

      #175228
      rapier
      Participant

        Is this the right way up in it’s ‘carrier’?

        #175230
        RICHARD A. WHITE
        Participant

          Lifetime Member

          Yup

          http://www.richardsoutboardtools.com
          classicomctools@gmail.com

          #175304
          fleetwin
          Participant

            US Member - 2 Years

            Well, first may I compliment you on how nice and clean that mag plate is….The only thing I see that may be troublesome is the positioning of those condenser wires…They should be positioned more horizontally on the points so they don’t rub against the flywheel. I don’t think this is the cause right now, you would see the rubbing on the leads, but sure can cause trouble in the future. Looks like the coil primary leads don’t have any insulation on the ring terminals, not that this is a problem, but be sure the leads aren’t inadvertently grounded. You have had this apart so many times, I’m guessing this is not the issue either. Watch out for the positioning of the primary lead as it exits the coil and runs near the crank also…. Are these components OEM? I know you mentioned that the coils are aftermarket, but the points look aftermarket also. I see that you have replaced one of the plug leads, you may as well replace the other one while you have it apart again. I see that you have removed the stop leads from the mag plate, so they are not causing the issue.
            How are you checking spark? The spark should be able to jump a 1/4″ gap while cranking, but I am assuming you don’t have one of the conventional spark testers and are just grounding the plugs to check spark.
            Finally, the beveled edge of the aluminum threaded mag plate retainer should face down, towards the gearcase. Be sure to use the OMC moly lube in between the retainer and the brass retainer ring, apply a little moly lube to the top of the brass ring where the mag plate rides also. A bit of moly lube should be applied to the brass mag plate bushing also. Proper lubrication is critical here for two reasons….Not enough means premature wear and excessive sideways slop/play. Too much means the excess lube gets into the mag plate and fouls the points….

            #175310
            jeff-register
            Participant

              US Member - 2 Years

              If I may? Have you checked lateral play in the mag plate/crankshaft? Also not brought up yet is mag plate to block. Have a 20hp Merc that was misfiring on both cylinders oddly. I had a current reverse from #1 mag into #2 points. Turned #2 cylinder points gold they were so hot from #1 mag. Remember a twin has two magnetos only sharing grounds only.
              Also with suspect coil removed from points & capacitor leads use a 1.5 volt “D” battery to momentary contact primary points lead to check for spark.
              A static test on the capacitors is better than no test. Charge cap using your analog meter, then reverse leads on cap in the voltage setting on your meter & the needle should jump up from cap discharging. Look on the underside of the coil very closely for tiny bumps where it may have discharged from running without output not terminated to spark plug lead. The Mag makes energy & it “looks” for the closest or easy path to ground. Remember the wire used on the secondary winding is VERY small & damage comes easy. For testing add a small stranded insulated wire from mag plate to block to electrically bond components please. Good luck & hope this helps,
              P.S. Not many check points spring for correct tension, too much & wears rubbing block & not enough & they float.
              Jeff

              • This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by jeff-register.
              #175364
              fleetwin
              Participant

                US Member - 2 Years

                Jeff, your discussion about one system/cylinder’s components somehow interacting/affecting the other cylinder’s ignition components is very intriguing indeed! Just wish I could understand your theory a little better….
                You point out a very important issue though, mag plate slop, no matter what might be causing it, will affect point gap and coil air gap, perhaps to the point of misfiring.
                Finally, it is only in recent years when I have gotten into the habit of “reusing/cleaning up old points” on engines used infrequently, that I have noticed excessive rubbing block wear and pay more attention to spring tension. I never paid much attention to these issues in my younger days because I never reused points/condensers.

                #175371
                rapier
                Participant

                  Thanks for the welcome comments Gents, before seeing the latest replies I went down most of the route above, looking for anomolies..and having looked closely at the mag plate (am using 2-4-C to lube), positions in relation to a reference mag plate (see below) for anything out of ordinary.

                  After picking up the old mag plate from an RD, setting the points and getting 2 decent sparks (unfortunately it belonged to a motor that wasn’t mine.), I have just walked away and removed the coils from the plate.

                  I just couldn’t trust the Chinese coils and the points had higher profile rubbing blocks and what seemed like a different shape springs vs. OEM points. Anyway, awaiting delivery of 2 OEM coils this weekend, they will join the OEM points and 2 fresh out of the packet OEM capacitors. I also have 2 extra spares mag plates in case the lateral wear is too much and some cable to make up HT leads with.

                  Will keep you posted.

                  • This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by rapier.
                  #175691
                  rapier
                  Participant

                    Following the arrival of 2 OEM coils, I went back to step one with a used mag plate, but am still getting no spark on the top cylinder..I did test my motor with a known good mag plate (that I don’t own) and it produced 2 good sparks.

                    So, as of today:-

                    – 2 new OEM coils – continuity / resistance is 4.65 & 4.77K OHms (between the block and the spark plug boot end)
                    – 2 new OEM condensers / capacitors (fresh out of the packet) – not sure how to test with a digital meter on OHms..if the top one is shot..I could swap them..
                    – 2 new spark plugs – Champion J4C set to .030 – bottom plug sparks with the plug I used to test No1 (holding the plug to earth on the head).
                    – 2 new HT leads I made up from new 7mm wire (continuity tested ok) old boots and tangs used
                    – 2 new sets of OEM points, set to .020 – clean (readings of 0.03K OHms normal closed, (+0.01 above reference reading) and 1.1K Ohms open, also normal readings)
                    – an old spare mag plate (spotlessly clean) used, with little lateral movement, lightly greased with 2-4-C where it should be. The reference plate is the pics of the green / yellow coil version.
                    – kill wiring isolated from the anti-pop and ignition circuit, with both of those hanging free (I fitted new ring terminals with heat shrink in order to ensure there’s no earthing)

                    Am unable to come up with anything further, or further tests I can try perhaps to find if there’s any earthing to ground, stray discharge?

                    IMG_1507-Large

                    IMG_1508-Large

                    IMG_1461-Large

                    IMG_1465-Large

                    • This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by rapier.
                    • This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by Mumbles.
                    #175702
                    olcah
                    Participant

                      US Member

                      You might take another look at the plug wire: Had a similar situation this winter and found that the stab-in type of spark plug terminal had not connected with the copper core of the plug wire. The newer (NAPA) plug wire has a small diameter copper core that is easy to miss when you push in the connector. Also in stripping the wire, leave a 1/4 ” or so of core beyond the insulation. Then “frizz” this up to improve the possibility of it connecting with the steel spring of the terminal. Try that on the coil end too. Best is to go back and assure by feel that the terminal has actually contacted thru the core.

                      #175706
                      rapier
                      Participant

                        Did that earlier in case the tang on the steel spring hadn’t made contact, just noticed my pics don’t show the new HT leads…

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