Home Forum Ask A Member 9.9 Johnson Carb Question

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  • #59825
    joesnuffy
    Participant

      The side electrode has a curve shape to it where it is joined to spark plug side it the curves and goes over the center electrode. As I understand it the curved part needs to be positioned where it is at the bottom of cylinder when screwed into the engine with the ground part facing up toward top of cylinder. Putting a mark on outside of plug with like a sharpie lets you know where the bottom curve is while your screwing it in because you can’t see it. I think that is what you and I are saying if so your correct

      If you look at the pic of spark plug you see the curved electrode and it curves out over the entire center electrode. When you grind the curved side electrode you grind it to where it doesn’t go over the entire center electrode it only goes half-way over it. I hope that helps explain it. It makes the spark jump from the center electrode sideways to the curved side electrode.

      These are good tips especially if a lot of trolling is involved.

      Hope that helps,
      Joe

      #59831
      outbdnut2
      Participant

        US Member

        Thanks guys for the spark plug tips. I never thought about gap alignment before, although I have played around with changing the gap on problem motors with mixed results, and I have put a higher heat range plug in one cylinder if the plug consistently comes out looking wetter/blacker than the other and this often works! Orientation of the electrode may explain why a 9.9 Johnson I worked on 3 years ago went from terrible to perfect idle when I put in new plugs, although I did change from Champion to NGK. Maybe the alignment just happened to get right with the new ones?…although NGKs just seem to work better in some motors.

        Dave

        #59845
        joesnuffy
        Participant

          If you look at rudderless notes. He is running a NGK b6 on top and b5 on bottom. I am guessing he is running B6HS top B5HS bottom You might consider trying what he has learned about the plugs.

          I think I was running a heat range of B7HS in both plugs and I used them in all 3 motors both cylinders which is a bit cold for that motor in my humble opinion but they are being ran in Key West its a bit hot down there and I pulled the thermostats on them one of them had sand up to past the bottom cylinder in the water jackets when I pulled the head. If you hit a sandbar down there it will fill one up with sand quick. I decided to pull the thermostats to help more water flow and less likely hood of that happening. Again just my humble opinion my wife hit a sand bar in VA Beach once and filled the motor water jackets with sand so fast that we had to walk like 8 miles down the beach to base to get the truck. I bet I pulled the heads on that 140hp 3 times to finally get all the sand out of water jackets. It would start and circulate water great then 2 minutes later stop. The sand got hot and formed like concrete in the water jackets and would stop water flow.

          You might try his heat range on your plugs might help dial it in.

          I did find out the BR7HS didn’t work as well the R is for resistor. and wasted power less spark.

          You don’t want a resistor in the 9.9s just my humble opionion. As NGKs numbers get lower the plug gets hotter. A 7 might be a tad cold for that motor? again just my humble opinion. A ngk B6HS may give you better results it would be closer to an 8 in Champion.

          Like a champion L77JC4 the heat index on it is almost an 8 which is way hotter than a NGK 7 again my humble opinion. I would try what rudderless did he has 3 years of messing with these. Don’t re-invent the wheel.

          Grinding the side electrode and orientation when plug is tight in cylinder are great old timer tricks to keep plugs from fouling especially when a lot of trolling is involved.

          Hope that helps,

          Joe

          #59853
          rudderless
          Participant

            The 74,75,76 had a head that would spray intake charge right at the plug tip. Later heads had the deflector to keep this from happening. The 93 and up the plugs are aimed away from the intake charge. The older head was higher in compression so I use it. I only use the hot plugs on that head. I aim the ground electrode towards the intake charge in an attempt to shield the center electrode from the charge. The tip of the plugs are always black but further in they are running clean.

            Shorten the ground electrode so it will pass by the center electrode at .025-.028in…kinda like a surface gap plug but with a ground electrode.

            I am using red Atom point eliminators and really like them. If they cook I will make a couple like in the make your own Atom thread. They are mounted outside on the motor next to the spark coils.

            I feel the ngk’s have a little less thermal mass at the working end and heat up quicker.

            The bottom cylinder runs cooler, puts out less power. The upper cylinder drains condensed fuel into the lower cylinder and the upper has a much shorter intake runner. The cc reeds burnt on the upper much faster than the lower cylinder also.

            I’ve only got 3 years onto this motor..members like Pappy have had a lifetime practically. He knows more than he lets on I betcha…

            #59865
            joesnuffy
            Participant

              I hope we haven’t bombarded you with to much info. I was challenged with these motors not the normal plug and play omc motor.

              You do have access to extra carbs so you might try that route first. I think that would be the best 1st step I would take.

              Make sure the carb butterly is closing all the way when inspecting the carb your going to try or the one you took off that isn’t idling correctly.

              Don’t be afraid to turn the low speed screw out more than the manual says to get a good idle I had to like 4.5 turns out on 1 engine. It was my thought that they sure put a bunch of threads on the needle for some reason. You might also make sure reed valves are closing completely by inspecting them with a bright light or see if one might be physically damaged or not closing as-well as the others.

              I looked up the sprark plug listed for a 1977 9.9hp its showing a L77JC4 which I cross referenced to a NGK B7HS . The B6HS would be a tad hotter if your already using the B7HS and can’t get it to idle well.

              Hope that helps,
              Joe

              #59882
              outbdnut2
              Participant

                US Member

                Thanks again for the info – never too much info – something here is likely to make it idle right. I have new B7 plugs in it but have some B6s I can try. I have tried the idle screw out as far as 5 turns. It does a very slight bit better 3 or 4 turns out than at the recommended one turn, and no change beyond that, but still not at all good. I’ll be digging into it again in the next couple of days. The owner needs a slow idle to back-troll for walleyes.
                Dave

                #59889
                rudderless
                Participant

                  Leaky crank seals and a reasonable idle are mutually exclusive…along with leaky reeds…

                  If one has to open the low speed mix to compensate for air leaks..look for air leaks

                  #59931
                  enrico-italy
                  Participant

                    I also had a troubly experience with this motor.

                    I bought a used 1976 9.9 with minor issues ( a broken mounting screw, hard to rotate twist grip etc.) four years ago.
                    The first season I had serious troubles to make it a good runner, because It "sneezed" at idle, so I opened the PW and I replaced seals (the lower one was broken) and rings.

                    I found on it a couple of Champion L77JC4, so I put on it a new pair of the same plugs.

                    The rebuilt engine worked better but the plugs lasts no more than two or three hours, then the spark gone.

                    In the first ten hours of use it burned two sets of L77JC4 and two sets of the raccomanded plugs (UL81J)

                    Then Garry or Mumbles, I don’t remember, suggest me to try NGK.

                    I put on it the used set of NGK B7HS I removed from my Yamaha 30D and, (miracle!!), all the issues disapppears.

                    Three years later, the 9.9 still runs well with the same plugs…

                    #59944
                    joesnuffy
                    Participant

                      Thats a good point about a top or bottom seal leak could also be problem. Here is a video to watch. Checking top seal is easy.

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWuRd7yjHlQ

                      Hope that helps,
                      Joe

                      #60024
                      outbdnut2
                      Participant

                        US Member

                        Ok – I dug into this motor again today. Compression is fine – 90 on both cylinders.

                        I think I’m getting somewhere with the carb: I pried the welch plug off the top of the carb and it gives access to the three idle holes going into the carb throat – I ran a wire through them and they are fine. I notes that only one hole is downstream of the carb throttle plate. The welch plug also gives access to the downstream side of the hole the low speed needle point sticks part way into, with the needle removed, I ran a wire through that it and it was clear, also blew carb cleaner back through the needle cavity from the small hole accessed via the welch plug. That welch plug did not give access to the needle valve’s bearing. I shined a flashlight into the needle valve’s mounting hole and could see something that looked no good at the end. With a small wire bent into a hook, I managed to pull out a small glop of what looks to be foreign material. It was "mush" when I squeezed it. It was much too small to be a partially carb cleaner dissolved bearing. It looked suspiciously like the crystalized stuff I found jamming the entire length of the float valve needle when I first took it apart, so it could have been some of that stuff that must have formed when gas (maybe gas with ethanol or some strange additive?) dried up in the carb, and the carb cleaner may have made it mushy.

                        When I looked into needle valve’s mounting hole with the flashlight, at the far end I am not sure if I’m seeing a bearing or not (hard to see up there), but I think I am because I am seeing detail that looks like the radius of the bearing housing and the center hole looks like it would match the cylindrical machined surface on the needle valve assembly just behind the actual needle – seeing this hole, does this mean the bearing is in there? The hole I see in the welch plug area coming from there is much smaller for the needle tip.

                        So now I will get a carbkit – need a new welch plug for starters.

                        More Questions:

                        1. Does a new bearing come with the Sierra Kit? The OMC kit? I think I’m seeing it in the OMC kit but not the Sierra in online photos, but it’s hard to tell. Otherwise, I see I can buy the bearing separate, but may not need it.

                        2. I’d like to make sure all idle passages are really clean, and that means removing the lead shot plugs. I’ve never done that before. Any tricks to shot removal/replacement? An old Clymer manual says to pry them out with a sharp knife, awl, or other sharp instrument. To install new shot it says to use a hammer and appropriate size punch. Any really slick ways to do this that anyone has found?

                        3. I’m not seeing lead shot in the carb kit photos. Can I use small fishing sinkers, squeezing them shut and , if needed, sanding the size down? I see part #0304201 lead shot at Marineengine.com for $8.93. Does that get me a few in a bag, or is that a price for one? The carb has 4 of them.

                        Thanks again for all the tips. To summarize, I think I’m onto something with the bad idle finding that glop of stuff up by the needle bearing area, and likely more in passages I will get to by removing lead shot. If knowing all carb passages are clean doesn’t get me a good low idle, I will then try the spark plug electrode tips.
                        Dave

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