Retainer ring locking down movement of magneto

[Mike FRAZIER]

I have a 1959 5hp Sea King (Gale) from Montgomery Ward, Model# GG8977B.  I’ve been working on restoring it and overall have been fairly successful so far.   I’ve rebuilt the carb and put new coils, condenser and points on the magneto plate as well as new sparkplugs / wires.  My dad, who soon will be 92 years old, purchased this motor the year I was born.

The specific issue I’m dealing with is the marriage of the brass mag support plate, retainer ring and magneto plate. When I tighten them down using the 2 short and 2 long screws, the movement needed for acceleration is so tight that King Kong couldn’t turn it. I’ve checked and no screws are extended rubbing anywhere. I’ve tried lightly applying marine grease to inside the brass ring and top flat area of the retainer ring as well as the underside of the magneto where it all comes together. The brass support plate does not appear warped so…?????

Oh, when I started this process, the old retainer ring was broke into 4 parts.  I ordered a replacement from T-Mikes which I’m sure was off a Johnson but it does match up with the screw holes.

I really don’t understand how any of them work because It would seems like your building sandwich and tightening it down.  The brass plate is anchored by 3 screws to the body.

Can anyone explain to me how this is supposed to work and what I might do to correct it?

[Gary H.]

I am not sure if this pertains to your motor but I once installed the brass ring upside down and had the same issue. It was a different motor than what you are working on but it took a while for me to figure out the problem. It is not hard to remove the mag plate and try flipping it over to see if that’s the issue. Just a little bit of time and you will know. Good luck.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Mike FRAZIER

[Bob Wight]

Also be sure that the flat side of the retaining ring is facing up.

Bob

1937 Champion D2C Deluxe Lite Twin
1954 Johnson CD-11
1955 Johnson QD-16
1957 Evinrude Fastwin 18
1957 Evinrude 3022
1958 Johnson QD-19
1958 Johnson FD-12
1959 Johnson QD-20
1982 Evinrude 25hp

“Every 20 minute job is only a broken bolt away from a 3-day project.”
"Every time you remove a broken or seized bolt an angel gets his wings."

1 user thanked author for this post.

Mike FRAZIER

[Mike FRAZIER]

Thanks Gary for the reply.

I took photos as I started disassembly and unless it was wrong before I started then I have it back like it was.  I’ll take another look at it though.

 

[Mike FRAZIER]

Those pics show the broken retainer ring that I have since replaced.

Bob,  I had seen an earlier post where you pointed that out so I made sure I had the flat side up on the replacement ring.  Thank You!

[Mike FRAZIER]

Update:    I asked my wife to join me in the shop while I put everything back together.  She’s been  my good luck charm for 47 years and still my first wife. lol

I had removed all the grease, wiped everything down, used super fine Emory cloth to clean off a couple of tarnish spots on both the upper and lower sides of the brass support plate.  I had also cleaned off the retainer ring.

After putting it all back together (no grease) and torquing the flywheel down to 40 foot lbs.,  I’m able to move the throttle although it is tough.  I pulled the flywheel with a string and confirmed I am now getting spark on both cylinders.

I still think pulling the string to spin the flywheel should be easier but at least it’s working now. I hope to set it in a trash can full of water and pump gas to it tomorrow.   I may have to tweak the carburetor a bit since I had rebuilt it as well.

Wish me luck!

[CHUCK]

Something still sounds amiss.  I can tell you that the screw lengths for the various screws going into the mag plate (for coils, points, condensors etc  are CRITICAL.  If you have one or more screws that are even just a little too long or in the wrong hole…..it can cause the issues you are having.

If you think that could be a possibility….try loosening them one at a time and see if anything changes.  The mag plate should rotate easily

[Don]

OK, wondering how that aluminum retainer got broken that way to being with.  Perhaps someone misassembled it and bent/distorted all the other pieces at the same time.  I would start by looking for another brass ring.  Then, I would assemble the pieces together temporarily with only the two short screws retaining the mag plate.  If it rotates OK this way, then I would add one more screw at a time and retest.  I have found that some of the newer OMC replacement coils come with screws that are slightly too long.

If the mag plate is still stiff with a new brass retainer and only two screws installed, I would look for another used mag plate.  Again, I’m thinking that however that retainer got damaged was caused by misassembly and created more damage.

PS:  You do have the fourth screw for the brass ring, hoping the block/threads are not damaged?

[Mike FRAZIER]

Today, I set the engine up over a tub of water so the water pump would be fed.   Checked the carb settings and  pulled using a temp string on the flywheel with a knot.  It was still the devil to pull but after a few attempts it tried to fire – – just for a split second; long enough for me to get excited but died immediately.   I noticed when I’d pull the string, the throttle plate would move from directly in front of me to my left at what I’d call the 9 o’clock position which is enough to kill the engine.

I took it back in the shop and pulled the flywheel off and loosened 2 long screws to no avail.  Then loosened the 2 short screws and of course it became easier to move back and forth.  I took the brass support plate off which only has 3 screws (never designed for 4) and assembled it and the retainer ring onto the mag plate.

Long story, short;  I have ordered one brass support plate and a replacement Mag plate off of ebay with the hopes of that solving the problem. The retainer ring is good.  Unfortunately, it will take over a week for them to get here using “USPS Ground Advantage”.   Slow as molasses’s in the winter time.

I’ll reply back once the parts get here.

Think I might have an adult beverage now.  I’m quiet sure I’ve earned it in this 100 degree heat.

Thanks for the input!

[Don]

OK, well something is wrong if the flywheel magnets are dragging the mag plate back.  Did you use the coil alignment tool to set the coil air gaps?  Perhaps the mag plate bushing is worn, or perhaps the pilot bushing on the block is worn…Check the mag plate for sideways slop.

[Author]

Posts