Home Forum Ask A Member Sealant or not on old NOS fiber gaskets?

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  • #304771
    Stewart Mayer
    Participant

      US Member

      Hi,

      I’m new to the AOMCI, I’ve fixed up a few outboards over the years.  I’m a high school engineering teacher and and we have purchased 8 old 1950s motors from 3-10hp so the students can learn how they work by getting their hands dirty.  Hopefully we can get them to run!  T-mike was kind enough to speak with our class via zoom to get us started, thanks again if your reading this!    We have taken the motors all apart, and unfroze the half that were frozen, now we are in the re-assembly stage of the powerheads.  I’ve purchased most of the replacement gaskets off ebay and they are mostly NOS (new old stock).  I know that sealant on gaskets is not generally recommended, but these gaskets look quite old and brittle, i’m not sure how much compression they have in them to form a tight seal.  They look to be, presumably, the asbestos type, some thicker than others.  Should we use some sort of thin sealant on these old gaskets to help them seal, and if so what kind?  Thanks!  Stewart

      #304773
      Stewart Mayer
      Participant

        US Member

        … one thing I’ve read is that the head gasket is designed to absorb and swell when in contact with water, is that true?

        #304779
        JACQUES
        Participant

          if you are going to service oldies  suggest you download  a free copy for each student to read and take home  to study .  just print and bind locally or store on  PCs

          a real bible… nice work teaching younger fellows to get hands dirty and away from IPhones !!

           

          keep in mind most of these oldiesmay have cracke coils in need o repalcement aswel las condensers. points can be cleaned up for a trial or replaced .   coils can be  oem expensive or  dirt cheap on amazon round 20$ each  search around.

          https://www.socalaomci.com/library/johnson_service_manual_10th_edition.pdf

          OMC outboard related articles

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga1Cjymj6ms&feature=youtu.be

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVOedhzPP7M

          Testing an Outboard Coil with a Multimeter using an ignition coil from the Johnson H or T

           

           

          Joining AOMCI has priviledges 🙂

          #304782
          JACQUES
          Participant

            get this book  for students …free bible

            https://www.socalaomci.com/library/johnson_service_manual_10th_edition.pdf

             

            check for cracked coils or bad condensers !!

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga1Cjymj6ms&feature=youtu.be

            Joining AOMCI has priviledges 🙂

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            #304784
            JACQUES
            Participant

              OMC outboard related articles

              Joining AOMCI has priviledges 🙂

              1 user thanked author for this post.
              #304785
              Stewart Mayer
              Participant

                US Member

                Thank you very much for the links 🙂

                #304798
                Sam M.
                Participant

                  Canada Member

                  Wow!  Learning engineering in high school with old outboard motors is not something I got to do.  Sounds like fun.  Lucky students!

                  I would reccomend trying the gaskets without extra sealant initially.  It’s way easier to add sealant later if a gasket leaks without than to accidentally get sealent cured in places it shouldn’t be and have to clean it out.

                  To me, all your gaskets look fine except the head gasket.  It looks iffy, and a little cracked.  If the old head gasket did not split when the cylinder head was removed, I would not try to replace that gasket with the one you have there unless the installed one obviously had an issue.  Assuming that upon dissassembly the old head gasket stuck to either the cylinder head or cylinder, I would not remove it from there as it is sealing and trying to remove it may break it.

                  If the current gasket is no good though, might as well try your replacement one!

                  Not sure what’s in your lesson plan but please make sure they know these basics (that I put sort of in order of importance here for you) so they can go fix other old outboards in the future without damaging them:

                  • Minimum 16/1 fuel mix in most outboards of that age, as they have plain bearings not roller bearings so they need more oil than newer engines.
                  • The water level should be above the impeller before starting the outboard, not just above the water intake holes as not all of the pumps self prime.  Because of this, a standard (5 gallon?) hardware store bucket is not a big enough test barrel.
                  • Most rubber water pump impellers tend to get brittle over time and need replacement or the engine won’t cool properly.  Replacing the old impeller is a VERY common thing to do before running an old outboard that’s been sitting.
                  • Keep the lower unit gears lubricated, and slowly refill with marine grade oil from the lower screw up to the top to avoid creating air bubbles.  Some non-shift 1950s outboards take thin grease instead (not the common NLGI #2 – that’s too thick). Most outboards older than the 1950s take thin grease in there gearboxes.  EDIT:  Actually I should say most outboards older then the 1940s take thin waterproof grease in their gearboxes.  I have thought of more exceptions in the 1940s since writing ‘the 1950s’ and I noticed I used the wrong version of ‘their’ for that sentence.
                  • It is very important for both the motor and its operator’s safety to torque the flywheel nut to specification and keep it that tight.  The vibrations might try to loosen it.  Don’t let that happen.  Also is a good idea to torque cylinder head bolts (in an alternating sides pattern to reduce warping) and connecting rod endcap bolts too.
                  • Use Ethanol-free gas as old rubber parts were not designed to resist ethanol and can weaken with exposure to it.  Surprisingly, ethanol gas can cause corrosion to metal parts too.
                  • Air cooled powerheads take air cooled oil, as opposed to regular outboard oil for water cooled outboards.  The oils are different because of the different opperating tempuratures associated with the different cooling systems.  Many air cooled outboards have a water cooled exhaust.  They still have an air cooled powerhead (so take air cooled 2-stroke oil), but some have a rubber water pump impeller too so only run them in water.  Others use pressure from the propellor to force water into the cooling passages without an impeller, but this last sentence is more of a fun fact than a must know for your students to go and succeed on their own in the future.

                  I hope this helps you and your class!

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                  #304801
                  Waunnaboat
                  Participant

                    US Junior Member

                    I don’t know if it is worth anything, but from what I have heard our small engines teacher (I don’t take his class but know him well through clubs) just uses some sort of plasticy sealant on most stuff apart from cylinder heads in place of a gasket(although I’d have to ask him what exactly it was because I forgot).  I have always made gaskets for all my stuff out of stock, but using some sort of caulking-like material(but more durable) may not be a bad idea, especially for lower units where a sealant that would mold to the cracks and crevasses that may be present in older and more beat-up motors may get a tighter seal whilst being less expensive than NOS gaskets on eBay.

                     

                    Just a thought, but you have gaskets anyway, and I would probably just slap them on the motor and see if they leak before using sealant.  For the cylinder head, you could always consider making your own gaskets if that is something that you feel would be beneficial to your students to know how to do.  A (more or less) Ok gasket is not all that hard to make with a scissor and maybe a hole punch for bolt holes.

                     

                    I’m certainly jealous that your students are able to work on outboards.  While I don’t find it beneficial to go through a small engines class for knowledge I already have for the most part, It is kind of sad that the only antique outboards they would be working on are the ones that I am able to give them(which will happen with the next free motors I get).

                    "Outboards seem to multiply exponentially..........I find that for every finished project, there are two more waiting to be completed."

                    #304818
                    Sam M.
                    Participant

                      Canada Member

                      If you wanted to try to making your own gaskets, this video by AOMCI member Tubs has lots of tips that I have found helpful:

                      https://youtu.be/I0FrFA__n00?si=nQVpCjJ4qjIQ5XAu

                       

                      I also thought of a supplementary tidbit I’d like to share as well, though this won’t drastically affect the running of an outboard.  In the ignition system, there should be a little piece of felt that rubs on the points cam.  Oiling the piece of felt and making sure it touches the cam lubricates the part of the points assembly that will rub on the cam as the motor runs.

                      1 user thanked author for this post.
                      #304819
                      Gary H.
                      Participant

                        US Member

                        Like Sam M said about the head gasket. It does not look useable to me. It looks like from the picture that pieces may have flaked off and there are cracks forming in it.  There even looks to be a possible crack in the gasket between two lower bolt holes – not sure from picture.  I would request a new gasket from where you purchased it or buy another good one.  Cylinder head gasket material is completely different than regular gasket paper or cork. It needs to hold the coolant and high compression away from each other and also from leaking internally and externally. Typically, it is not recommended to use a sealant on head gaskets especially a silicone based sealant.  People may disagree. I have read that people have used OMC Perfect seal on a head gasket and bolt threads in the past with good results. Best of luck with your projects and you are doing a great service to the students.

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