1969 4hp Folding Johnson Outboard not circulating

Home Forum Ask A Member 1969 4hp Folding Johnson Outboard not circulating

Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 26 total)

  • joesnuffy


    Replies: 356
    Topics: 23
    #238345

    I’m having trouble getting a 1969 folding outboard 4hp to circulate. I think it is restricted somewhere. And the pieces that fold together for the water supply tube do not look right. I have the grommet that is called for but never have installed one on a folding motor. The piece of copper where the lower folds to the upper part of tower is only like 1/8 inch sticking out. Not sure if that is correct I have never worked on one of these. I put a small piece of fuel hose in there and folded the lower back to tower carefully and still no circulation. I tried putting a small piece of hose to the upper copper tube and blowing through it but it seemed restricted. When I blew through the bottom supply tube from water pump it was not restricted. When I replaced the exhaust plate gasket the hole water comes through on top of power head is very small wondering if that might be my restriction?? I am going to try and put a small wire up through the copper pipe that feeds the power head to see if it might be restricted.

    I did replace the impeller also and the cup looked like new.

    Hoping some one has some pictures and could tell me how to go about trying to get it circulating I do have the part number 317372 grommet that is suppose to be in there but I would like someone that knows to look at my pictures and help point me in the right direction.

    Thanks,
    Joe

    • This topic was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by joesnuffy.
    • This topic was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by joesnuffy.
    • This topic was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by joesnuffy.

    frankr

    US Member - 1 Year (includes $3 online payment fee)
    Replies: 6715
    Topics: 51
    #238370

    If you are speaking of the hole where the water flows horizontally across the top of the powerhead, yes that is rather small. Something like 1/8″ as best as I can remember.


    joesnuffy


    Replies: 356
    Topics: 23
    #238399

    Frank,
    I found that one that runs horizontal on the top of engine from the exhaust cavity plate and it is very small. I think by backwards tracing the water goes through exhaust cavity under the exhaust plate then enters through that small horizontal hole into the top cylinder at the top of the top cylinder then drains on the bottom cylinder through a very small hole also like 1/8 inch toward rear of bottom cylinder at about 4 o-clock. It was clogged on the bottom 1/8 inch hole. This motor had like brownish white crust in the cylinder liners and that small hole on the bottom cylinder is subject to get clogged easily. This is not my motor but I wonder if some type of modification could be done to it such as adding a p tube on the bottom to make sure water is always flowing through the engine and could be visibly checked. I am going to clean the water jackets very well but it looks like it could clog up any second and prevent it from cooling. The person that owns this motor lives on a sailboat so the motor is running in salt/brackish water. I have tuned the motor and did a carb rebuild on it and it runs very well but if it won’t cool that’s the bigger issue.

    Thanks,
    Joe

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    fleetwin

    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 4737
    Topics: 46
    #238444

    Hmmm, that water tube grommet in your picture does not look right to me…I hadn’t messed with one of these engine until last year, it is a 1966 model… perhaps the 69 models are different…Nonetheless, on the 66 model, that grommet stuck up farther, just slightly above the casting, so as to make a good seal between the metal mating surfaces…Yours appears to be down a bit, so cooling water could escape between the mating surfaces….Maybe your grommet had split and part of it has broken off…
    Again, don’t have much experience with these folders, so might be all wrong here.


    joesnuffy


    Replies: 356
    Topics: 23
    #238471

    Fleetwin,
    I’m glad you explained about he grommet. I have never messed with one of the folding motors until now I thought that where they fold together it might be missing more than that damaged rubber grommet on the one I am working on. I thought I had the right new grommet on hand but it was for a larger diameter copper pipe like 3/8. I got the right one on order for where those haves mate up its like for 1/4 copper. I have a small piece of fuel hose squeezed in there right now that I have been using to help diagnose why the water was not circulating through the engine. It is sealing those haves for now I plugged the hole where the water goes up to under the exhaust plate to make sure it was sealing well and checked to make sure it was not leaking where the halves fold together. I think I found out why the motor was not circulating water it was the drain hole in the water jacket on the bottom cylinder at about 4 o-clock was plugged its only like 1/8 inch hole. Once I get the new head gasket and exhaust plate gasket I will make sure the motor is circulating water and then replace the grommet where the halves fold together.
    Thanks,
    Joe

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by joesnuffy.
    • This reply was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by joesnuffy.

    fleetwin

    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 4737
    Topics: 46
    #238566

    Yeah Joe, there is a very small hole in the bottom of the powerhead that allows a little of the incoming water to bypass the exhaust manifold and enter the cylinder water jackets, this is usually plugged. But, that would not stop water from circulating….Probably would create some hot spots in the water jackets due to trapped air though. That top cross over and elbow in the block are usually trouble spots in salt water for sure. Unfortunately, you can’t run a wire through the exhaust cover area in the block to clean out that area because there is a deflector half way through the block that directs the incoming water down to fill the cylinders. before it can get back up the other side and go out through the elbow up top. There are two little pressed in “plugs” at that elbow that can be removed, but get destroyed in the process. Don’t know if they are available anymore, they were pretty pricey the last time I looked. Be careful about the base gasket also, I have heard that the base gaskets for the 68 3hp and later model 4hps can get easily mixed up, and will bolt in place just fine, but the holes for water entry/exit don’t match up blocking water flow. I have never actually looked at the two gaskets myself though.
    Getting that midsection apart and powerhead off is tricky also…There is a roll pin in the driveshaft that has to be lined up with a slot in the adapter before the powerhead will come off. I am learning all this stuff the hard way working on this 66 folder I picked up…The powerhead was dangling there, trying to come off when I found it, finally figured out what was holding it on there….


    crosbyman

    Canada Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 3588
    Topics: 326
    #238567

    Any chance this engine would benefit from a good flush with some flushing agent to react to cruddy deposits ? …. even plain / hot vinegar could soften up deposits after a few hours .

    Stronger commercial flushing agents are also shown on Utubes to clear up internal “inaccessible” cavities of hot running engines .

    Joining AOMCI has priviledges 🙂


    fleetwin

    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 4737
    Topics: 46
    #238601

    You just have to be mindful of that “lyfanite” coating that is found in many of the cooling passages back then…You don’t want to loosen all that up and have it floating around in there… That cooling exit passage “elbow” is the tricky part on these engines. You can only get at one side of the elbow by passing a long drill bit/punch up the vertical passage on the right side of the powerhead… If the lyfanite coating isn’t present in that passage, then by all means try something like CLR (the safe for aluminum variety). Again, those plugs in the elbow can be removed, but be sure to procure new ones prior to ruining the old ones while removing them..


    joesnuffy


    Replies: 356
    Topics: 23
    #238813

    Thanks guys for all your help this is an update of what I found and have done.

    I put the new rubber grommet on the folding leg part and the new part did not fit around the 1/4 inch copper pipe snugly I think they may have sent the wrong part so I still had to use a small piece of fuel hose to get it to seal like it should. I did this step first to make sure it was sealing while I had the exhaust plate off the motor I used a small piece of grocery plastic bag at the top hole where water enters under the exhaust plate to plug it up and make sure no leakage while I used a small piece of hose with the bottom foot off to blow air and make sure no leakage occurred where the lower leg folds together. I can make up some extras for the owner.

    I used a small drill bit to clean the horizontal top tube but like Fleetwin said you can’t go all the way across because they factory put in that water deflector to make the water go down then back up. I managed to clean the small hole on the top cylinder about 1 oclock and the bottom cylinder hole about 4 oclock with metal wire but the water still would not flow sufficiently once I starter motor. Some water would come out the blubber holes but not much. The motor would get warm/hot very quickly like 1.5 minutes so I did not run it long since it had new head gasket and new exhaust plate gasket.

    It is possible like Fleetwin said I could pull those small oval caps and see if their is restriction but I did manage to insert the small wire into both and I dont think they are restricted but it could be where the power head bolts down. The owner did not know the history on this motor the impeller was very old I replaced and would kind of tell me the base gasket would be correct but could have some restriction from mud daubers or something. I did see some water coming through the blubber holes so it most likely would not be the wrong base gasket but anything is possible at this point. I could blow a small amount of air through the engine with the small piece of fuel hose connected the copper pipe with lower foot off and exhaust plate installed and the cylinder head installed it just felt slightly restricted still.

    When I started motor in the tank I saw a small amount of water blowing out the top of exhaust plate where I didn’t have it quit tight enough so I knew it was getting the water pressure to the power head.

    Please don’t blast me for this mod but I have pulled my hair out with this motor and he is at his limit on just what parts have cost I am not charging him labor. He purchased a 4.5hp 1987 Evinrude I went through and loves it and uses it to get back and forth to sailboat. It has the factory tale tail and this motor is for back-up to that motor.

    I decided to do something I could undo with a little JB weld and a small screw if I needed to. I drilled a very small hole like 7/64 (similar to the size holes from the factory in the cylinder jackets) into the side of the engine block basically between the cylinders and started the motor. I ran it for like 15 minutes at all speeds checking it with my laser thermometer and the temps stayed perfect like 135-150 depending on where I was aiming the thermometer on the engine block. I am going to insert/squeeze a small piece of tygon fuel hose into the hole I made and run it out the pan to make a tale tail for that engine so he can monitor water flow if he uses the motor. Where the water leaves the hole is around 135 degrees so I am hoping the tygon will hold up if not I am going to jb weld a very small nipple or small pipe in the small hole then use the tygon fuel hose to make a tale tail.

    I think with the way the motor folds together the tale tail would be good to make sure water flow is happening when he starts the motor. I think I will end up pulling the power head once I talk to the owner and look for a restriction on the bottom of engine possible mud daubers I can also pull the head and put air through from the bottom of power head to see if it is restricted I could even soak it with CLR or something.

    Thanks,
    Joe

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by joesnuffy.

    fleetwin

    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 4737
    Topics: 46
    #238833

    OK, well seems as if the “telltale” you made up is substituting for the restriction that might be blocking the water from exiting the powerhead…
    Did you have the powerhead off of the lower cowl, or were you working on it while still in place. It is very possible that the blockage/restriction is in the lower cowl/adapter where the water exits out of the vertical water passage on the right side of the block. Does it look like the powerhead has been off this engine before, guess it is hard to tell on an engine of this age…
    Can you post a picture of the telltale you engineered?
    It is best that you get to the bottom of this issue by pulling the powerhead off the exhaust housing, then off of the lower cowl…Keep in mind that you have the water exiting overboard outside the exhaust housing now, some of that water is needed inside the exhaust housing to help keep it cool as well…D

Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 26 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.