Home Forum Ask A Member Johnson HS39 carbon rods and springs

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  • #225143
    Buccaneer
    Participant

      US Member - 1 Year (includes $3 online payment fee)

      I’m taking notes for if and when I ever revisit this motor. Thanks for the good info!

      Prepare to be boarded!

      #225144
      Buccaneer
      Participant

        US Member - 1 Year (includes $3 online payment fee)

        I uploaded the video of my HD-15 with this Rube Goldberg ignition system.

        https://youtu.be/9Msl2YQANKs

        Prepare to be boarded!

        #225154
        Mumbles
        Participant

          Thanks Mumbles that makes sense. Do you have dimensions for those carbon rods? Diameter and length?

          I’m afraid I never took note of them but if one of yours is shorter than the other, couldn’t the spring be stretched a bit to compensate for it?

          They have to be close to 1/4″ thick as I used a .22 or .223 bore brush to clean the tubes they ride in.

          #225195
          Michael Purpura
          Participant

            US Member - 2 Years

            I don’t want to stretch the spring. I noticed in the picture of the ignition plate that the rods appear to be protruding out at least 3/4 to 1″. This means that those rods extend down into the hole some undetermined length. Mine are barely 3/4″ long.

            How can I find out if anyone has these rods for sale or knows the original length of the. I can get conductive rods from McMaster Carr, and I think graphite can be machined. But I would at least like to buy the right diameter and then cut them to length and radius the tops.. If those rods are not making good contact I can see where they would cause a problem with the engine firing properly.

            Are their experts out there on the HS39 1939 Johnson Sea Horse?

            #225241
            Michael Purpura
            Participant

              US Member - 2 Years

              For what it is worth the rods are 0.250″ conductive graphite. There is a 1/8″ shoulder on one end turned to 0.200″. The top is radiused to allow it to slide between the bakelite and the coper conductor plate inside the flywheel. The springs are 0.4375″ free length, 0.145″ OD, 0.115″ ID. Coils total 7 – 5 active and 2 inactive on the top gripping the shoulder of the rod. The wire thickness is 0.015″. I still do not know the original length, but I am thinking that there can’t be more than a 1/4″ of allowable travel in that spring. One of my rods is 11/16″ and the other is 7/16″. I will try to determine the original length by measuring the free height inside the flywheel when it is mounted. Then I will add length to compress the spring + 1/8″ for the shoulder. This should give me the overall length of the graphite rods. I plan to turn them on the lathe and radius the top that contacts the underside of the flywheel. Since it is graphite it is self-lubricating but over 50 years or so some wear must occur.

              I’ve had several suggestions to stretch the springs. I don’t think this is the right approach. It will change the rate on the spring and you could end up with less force against the graphite rod. I think the pressure has to be consistent to make good contact and conduct the pulse from the magneto. There is probably some limit to the wear on those graphite rods, beyond which the electrical connection is not good enough to conduct the pulse to the coil.

              I will let you know how the parts turn out and, more importantly, if the engine runs smoothly after I get them replaced. If anyone has any information on the original length of these rods let me know. McMaster Carr has 1/4″ conductive graphite in 6″ and 12″ lengths.

              #225242
              joecb
              Participant

                US Member - 2 Years

                I doubt that the rods are worn significantly…bett – ch’ that when the flywheel goes on they will be just right. To satisfy yourself, can you indirectly measure where the flywheel commutator surface would lie when the wheel is in place?

                Joe B

                #225379
                Michael Purpura
                Participant

                  US Member - 2 Years

                  An update on the graphite brushes. I was able to machine them out of 0.250” conductive graphite rod. Final dimensions are 0.240” OD, 0.200” shoulder and an OAL of 1”. See attached drawings and photos. The springs are internal and attached. You should not need springs

                  Drawing, new brushes, old brushes, leftover rod

                  Depressed brush

                  Extended brushes

                  #225384
                  Michael Purpura
                  Participant

                    US Member - 2 Years

                    An update on the graphite brushes. I was able to machine them out of 0.250” conductive graphite rod. Final dimensions are 0.240” OD, 0.200” shoulder and an OAL of 1”. See attached drawings and photos. The springs are internal and attached. You should not need springs

                    Drawing, new brushes, old brushes, leftover rod

                    Depressed brush

                    Extended brushes

                    #225387
                    Michael Purpura
                    Participant

                      US Member - 2 Years

                      I was able to machine the brushes out of conductive graphite. See photos and drawing. The rod is available from McMaster Carr. But the rod is 0.250” and has to be turned to 0.240”The springs are actually integral to the sockets. I assume they are attached to make sure there is a good electrical connection. See photos and drawing.

                      #225391
                      Buccaneer
                      Participant

                        US Member - 1 Year (includes $3 online payment fee)

                        Back in high school shop in the 70’s, one of our projects was to make
                        a carbon rod “torch”, for lack of a better term.
                        You’d hook it up to a 12 volt car battery and the carbon would get red hot.
                        It worked great for unsoldering heavy duty connections like generator fields.
                        Anyway, the carbon rod we recycled from old “D” flashlight batteries.
                        If memory serves me correct, they were about 1/4″ diameter, and of course
                        about as long as the battery.
                        Not sure if they’d work for the Johnson magneto or not, and I have no
                        idea what’s inside of a modern battery!

                        Prepare to be boarded!

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