Home Forum Ask A Member 1958 Lark 35

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  • #1948
    flathead
    Participant

      I’m working on my Lark. 35514-01443. Trying to get an alumacraft FD set up to use. The problem I have with it is, it seems to overheat. I swapped lower units with a Johnson 40hp. Both have thermostats. I resealed the lower unit. I used the plate under the impellor off the Johnson first. Both impellers look good. Both still flexible. At first it would slobber water for a few minutes after it warmed up,(not as much) then it would quit and heat up. I tore it back apart, put the plate from the Lark in it, checked the water tubes, put the impellor from the Lark back in it. Now it throws good water for quite a while. Probably 10 minutes at least, but it still gets hot and quits pumping water. I have only been testing in a tank. The water is plenty deep. The motor gets hot, can’t hold your hand on it. Mid section also gets hot. I used sealant under the plate, under the water pump housing, between the lower unit/mid section. So far, I haven’t got any water in the oil. I hope this is enough information for you guys that do this all the time. I do appreciate any help I can get. Hopefully this is an easy problem to solve, I’ve been into the lower unit 4-5 times now trying to get everything right. Thanks again.

      #19529
      fleetwin
      Participant

        US Member - 2 Years

        Are all the thermostat components in place, including the spring loaded valve underneath the thermostat? If that valve is missing or not operating properly, water will bypass the powerhead and the engine will overheat. Seems like you have substituted gearcases and most water pump parts only to get the same result.
        Test tanks can be our worst enemies sometimes, although you mention the gearcase is buried deep in the tank. Is the tank clean? Maybe leaves/debris in the tank is clogging the water pick up. It is always worth trying the rig in the actual water to make sure this is not a tank issue.
        You mention swapping many of the water pump pieces, but not the aluminum impeller housing, perhaps the aluminum housing is grooved/worn. There is a bleed hole in the impeller housing that must be clear also. You mention trying two impellers, I’m assuming at least one is relatively new. Are you using OEM water pump parts or aftermarket? Several members have reported problems with aftermarket impellers.
        Have you had the thermostat off? What is the history of this engine, is it new to you? Is the head/block discolored from overheating?
        Is this a fresh or salt water engine?
        Finally, you mention resealing the gearcase and that you "haven’t got any water in the oil". A leaky gearcase won’t create overheating problems, I’m not sure if that is what you were asking about though. You have swapped gearcase housings, so I am assuming the SS impeller plate is sealing properly to the gearcase housing. Stripped/broken impeller housing screws, or damaged/corroded casting under the SS impeller plate will create and exhaust leaking into the pump causing overheat problems.
        Hopefully some of my thoughts/questions will point out a problem that is quickly resolved for you. Feel free to post pictures if that will help clarify questions/issues.

        #19531
        frankr
        Participant

          US Member

          There is a hole drilled at an angle between the pump outlet area and the drive shaft area. Make sure that hole is open. Make sure there are no holes in the copper "down" pipe. Some have a hole in the "up" pipe. That is OK. A mistake many people make is removing the thermostat housing and relief valve, already mentioned. That allows air into the return line to the pump. Rare, but it happens is a crack behind the long narrow plate on the side of the gearcase. If it has ran hot, the head gasket and/or exhaust cover gaskets may be leaking, allowing air into the cooling system. In short, anything that allows air into the cooling system to return to the pump may be the problem.

          #19534
          flathead
          Participant

            I swapped lower units because the original was leaking/cracks/welded. Only reason I mentioned it, was so you had some history of the motor. It’s new to me. No paint discoloration. I ran it for a while in the tank pre swap, pumped good water the whole time so I’m thinking it’s something I did, or something with the Johnson/Evinrude swap. The thermostat pieces are all in there, I’m getting water up to the stat housing. If I turn it over with the housing off it throws water out the top. But I don’t know if it still would once it got hot. It’s pumping good for about 10 minutes now, then slows, then stops. The tank is clean. Screen on the bottom of unit is clean. No broken housing screws. No holes in copper tubes. When I put the impeller plate in, I sealed it down.(Hopefully it’s done right) The one thing I question is the hole you mention by the housing towards the shaft. I think I cleaned all the holes I saw in there, however I don’t remember that. Is it easily seen? Have you ever seen one get hot in a tank, but be ok on the lake? It’s a freshwater motor. Sorry I was bouncing around, kept going back up to read so I could try and answer. Thanks again for the help. One more thing, I may have swapped or mixed the copper tubes from one to the other, don’t know for sure, they matched so I put them in.

            #19536
            flathead
            Participant

              You might have guessed, I’m no expert on these motors. I just really like old stuff and would like to get better at working on these. So if you feel like your talking to a toddler that’s why. I really do appreciate the information. The boat I’m working on is a 1958 alumacraft FD. Has the bow and windshield on it, at some point somebody added a steering wheel and cables. I have a tee nee trailer for it. It’s just cool. I have others also, so I figured I better learn about them or go broke paying people to work on them.

              #19542
              chris-p
              Participant

                there is a seal on top of the impeller housing. A view of the hole is blocked by this seal. if you look up from inside the impeller housing, you will see it. It is a vent.

                I have to ask, and don’t meant to be rude, but why would you drop the gearcase 4 or 5 times and not just install a new OEM impeller? Any new motor to me gets a new impeller, I don’t even try running them until I do that. After you have to pick chunks of rubber out of the cooling system when the blades break, you don’t want to do it again.

                I would drop the gearcase, install a new OEM impeller, ensure the vent hole is clear. inspect the impeller housing, inspect the grommets too! They swell and reduce water flow. I like to buy them in bulk and change them as well too. Grease the water lines and the grommets before installing gearcase. This ensures that they don’t get pinched in there, restricting flow, and they slide up smoothly. Before installing gearcase, run compressed air up the water line, with the t stat and assembly out, and ensure good flow. Then back flush from the t stat housing down to the water line. If you are happy there are no restrictions, bolt her up.

                Perhaps your t stat is failing? They usually stick open, but maybe yours is stuck closed, hence the overheat.

                Again, make sure that white valve and spring are installed under the t stat, or the pump wont function right!

                #19543
                al-lockhart
                Participant

                  Canada Member - 2 Years

                  You Mentioned in your first post that you used sealer in several places around the water pump, there is nowhere in that assembly that requires sealant, remove it all, clean it up really good , put it back together and try again. I suspect that the sealant is getting into places it shouldn’t be and stopping the water flow. Make very sure that the water tubes are fully engaged into the rubber grommets and that they are not crushed or torn. The thermostat engines run at 140f so there should be little water flow from the tell tale until it warms up and then the flow will increase dramatically but it will be hot so be careful.

                  #19548
                  flathead
                  Participant

                    Chris, the impeller I started with was new, sierra, but out of the Johnson gearcase. I put it in last year but never used the motor. Thought I’d be good with that, then after the swap, and first overheat, I thought it’s possible it would be slightly different. Then I put the old one back in to see if that was the problem. I inspected the water lines/grommets. One grommet was smashed in so I replaced it with a different one. Greased the copper tubes before installing gearcase. I did not blow air through it, however I pulled the stat out and cranked the motor it pumped water to there. When I pulled stat it was hot, I watched it move as it cooled so it’s not stuck. I didn’t think you were being rude, your trying to help me figure it out, thanks. The white valve is under it, and springs.
                    Al, I was wondering about that, it didn’t seem right when I was doing it. That’s why I was sure to mention it. I also replaced the housing/driveshaft seal and used sealant there. Should I pull that too? I did clean that hole when I had the seal out. Does the impeller plate need sealant under it? Is there an issue using sierra parts? I used seal kit, seals, impeller.

                    #19553
                    chris-p
                    Participant

                      If you put sealer around the edge of the ds seal, and sealed the impeller plate down, that is fine, as long as there was not excess that restricted a passage somehow? I seal all of my impeller plates down.

                      It almost sounds like gas is working its way into the pump, causing it to stop pumping once it does. Sounds like you are doing everything right though, so Im not sure.

                      #19577
                      fleetwin
                      Participant

                        US Member - 2 Years

                        OK, so it sounds like you have tried a used impeller and a new Sierra impeller. Like I say, members have reported problems with aftermarket impellers, so I would certainly try a brand new OEM impeller. You saw the hot thermostat opened when you pulled it, then watched it close as it closed, so that seems OK.
                        When you talk about the housing/driveshaft seal, are your referring to the seal in the aluminum impeller housing, or the gearcase upper driveshaft seal which is below the SS impeller plate. In a perfect world, no sealer is required anywhere, but we are dealing with a 50 year old engine so I’m sure none of the metal surfaces are "perfect". In any event, a light coating of the OMC/merc gasket sealer around the outer edges of either seal shouldn’t hurt anything, and is a good idea for the driveshaft seal below the SS impeller plate. It is probably a good idea to use the type M/847 sealer sparingly under the SS impeller plate where it mates to the gearcase housing. But yes, it is best to install the aluminum impeller housing "dry" against the SS impeller plate. The key term here is "sparingly". Too much sealer can surely make a mess. Please don’t remove the upper driveshaft seal (under the SS impeller plate) again if you have already replaced it, regardless of using sealer, you will have to destroy that new seal to replace it. Aftermarket seals should have no effect on the water pump job.
                        You mention that the relief valve and spring is in place under the thermostat, so that seems OK. No obvious signs of overheating (burnt/discolored paint on block), so that says something may have gone wrong while you were doing the water pump job.
                        The only other thing we/you have mentioned is the little relief hole in the aluminum impeller housing, too much sealer surely could have plugged that up. You would need to remove the two large screws that fasten the water tube receptacle to the aluminum impeller housing in order to check out the little relief hole. There is a hole drilled through the impeller housing, passing through a hole in the gasket, then through a hole into one of the water tube passages. This hole must be clear to keep the water pump from getting air bound.

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