Home Forum Ask A Member ’67 80 hp V4; checking for air leaks?

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  • #9011
    Alan
    Participant

      Hello to all;
      How best to check for air leaks in an old V4? looks like the case doesn’t split, but the intake has a lot of gasket goin’ on.

      Spray something around seams until it runs differently? WD-40? Starter fluid??

      I can’t get it to run right, and I’m guessing there may be an air leak somewhere.

      It, "ran away" on me today, and I was not amused. Closed the throttle, hit the key; finally had to close the choke.

      From what the interwebs say, this is caused by overheating / lean condition. Hot enough to ignite it with the key off, I guess. I’ll re-check compression to make sure it’s not baked, and re-check the carb to ensure float function. But then?

      It starts well, runs decently at low speeds, (but seems to want a lot of choke). It will speed up in gear until about half throttle, when it gets boggy. More throttle = more bog. "Funny", as I back the throttle off, when it gets under about half, it gives a power surge.

      I’ve been through the carb like 9 times. This last time I took all the welch plugs out, (again) soaked it for days, much blowing and carb cleaner. New float, (again). Needle and seat are newish. Checked the float level very carefully; ensured it swung freely. Carb and linkage are synched.
      Ignition seems fine; all parts are newish, and spark tests OK.
      Any opinions welcome!
      Appreciated;
      Alan

      #69744
      fleetwin
      Participant

        US Member - 2 Years

        So, you are saying that someone has been into the intake manifold, there are signs that the gaskets were replaced….
        I am suspect when I see things like this, always "wondering why"….
        Generally speaking, an intake manifold leak/reed problem will be more evident at lower speeds. You mention the engine "runs OK" at lower speeds "but needs a lot of choke". Are you running the boat on the water, or in a bucket? There is a bogging problem at higher speeds, but the engine surges back to life when the throttle is reduced…
        You mention that the carb/linkage is properly synchronized, but the symptom you mention makes me think something is off with it. Did you actually remove the high speed jets? Did you use the proper jet screwdriver?
        How about the distributor belt? Is it properly indexed on the flywheel/distributor? If this is not set up properly, it might cause the symptoms you describe.
        I guess at this point, I would probably start over from step one, can’t remember if you checked compression…
        Back to your original question, it is surely possible that someone made a mess when they had that intake off. New gaskets are not expensive, just an investment in your time to pull it off and clean the gasket surfaces properly and check the reeds…Generally speaking, the new gaskets should be installed "dry".
        I am trying to remember the story on this engine, but am assuming you bought it and it has never run correctly for you, is this the case?

        #69747
        Alan
        Participant

          Many thanks Fleetwin.

          Long story short, this motor has run great in the past on a previous boat. Sold the boat, put the motor on a stand, (indoors) for a about a year, and then mounted it on a different boat. I used the same wiring harness, control box, etc. I did convert it back to long shaft, (as it was when I first bought it), but it doesn’t seem to be binding, or making bad noises. I also added an ammeter, but the wiring harness I had was originally for an electric shift, and was pre-wired for one. I used a wiring diagram provided by Frank Robb, and it all went together fine. Same harness all along. Ignition switch was replaced at the outset, with a correct marine one, and has never given trouble.

          This happened today, on the lake. I’ve never had one run away before; not fun.

          It hasn’t run right since mounted on the, "new" boat, but I can’t imagine what the problem would be. Other than the ammeter, I made no changes to the wiring harness. The battery has sat in the boat for 6 weeks, with no power loss, so I’d be surprised if there was a short. Part of the problem was that the coating I originally used on the float dissolved into chunks, but I’ve cleaned the carb three times since then. I actually ordered a correct jet removal tool, and replaced the high speed jets, "orifices".

          I see no evidence that the crankcase has been opened. It’s always looked like a low hour, freshwater motor; factory paint on the block looks great. All fuel hoses and primer bulb replaced with good quality stuff; no improvement. Compression was 100 lbs per cylinder, when last checked. Impeller is almost new, and works fine. Puts out a lot of water through the exhaust when warmed up, and motor is not too hot to the touch. All ignition parts are new, or almost new. Distributor belt is recent, and distributor is correctly synched.

          Many thanks;
          Alan

          #69748
          outbdnut2
          Participant

            US Member

            It’s been about 50 years and my memory is foggy as to the symptoms, but I remember on a V4 60 HP, some running issues due to a small hole in the rubber fuel pump diaphragm. I don’t think this is your problem, but an easy thing to check and/or replace.
            Dave

            #69750
            Alan
            Participant

              Thanks Dave!
              Fuel pump diaphragm has been recently replaced; didn’t seem to help.
              That would explain it leaning out as the throttle opened; I’ll check into that.
              Fuel lines are newish, but I’ll scrutinize those too.
              Appreciated.

              #69757
              frankr
              Participant

                US Member

                Uncontrollable runaway is usually a result of revving it up in neutral or out of the water, or other no-load conditions such as a busted shear pin. However, as I read your story, you seem to indicate you had it on the lake. So, I dunno–was it in gear at the time?

                Other than that, your symptoms scream out "Too lean". OK, back to the carburetor for the 10th time. Are you SURE the high speed jets are absolutely clean? Are you SURE they are the right ones?

                If you are sure of the above, then are you SURE the belt timing is correct? And are you SURE the carb/distributor linkage is properly synchronized? If not, it absolutely will cause just what you are describing. My honest suspicion is that this is the problem (?)

                I seriously doubt it is the crankcase leakage that you are suspecting. If it were, it would show up as poor running at idle, not at high speed.

                One last thought–does it run better with the hood off? Missing parts from that extension kit will cause it to smother with the hood on.

                #69760
                frankr
                Participant

                  US Member

                  Reading all this again, I’ll bet you were dinking around with the throttle while running in neutral, which initiated the runaway.
                  It also seems to confirm that the timing or carb synchronization is off. The carburetor throttle shaft should remain almost closed until the spark advance is at the full advance stop. Too much carb opening before full spark advance is reached will make it bog—big time.

                  #69762
                  fleetwin
                  Participant

                    US Member - 2 Years

                    OK, thanks for the info, so the engine did run OK before making the long shaft conversion….
                    Everything you describe screams out some sort of fuel problem, or belt/carb/distributor synchronization issue. Although, never say never when it comes to a spark problem, sometimes they can sound like fuel issues.
                    I am trying to remember whether this engine has battery CD, or the conventional 12volt automotive type distributor ignition set up. Am "guessing" it has the conventional distributor set up.
                    You said in your first post that "the intake has a lot of gasket going on", what do you mean by that? Your latest post indicates the intake has not been messed with….
                    I’m guessing intake air leaks are not an issue if the intake has not been messed with. Spraying the WD40 around the intake can fool you, because it is really being pulled in through the carb, not a leaky intake gasket. Generally speaking, you will see fuel residue on the block if there is an external air leak issue.
                    I like Frank’s idea about running with the cover off. Let us know how the engine ran away on you, were you revving it in neutral?
                    I agree with Frank, my next step would be to go through the timing belt and sync set up procedures….
                    Am glad to hear you are purchasing the correct jet tool, it is worth the expense…

                    #69765
                    frankr
                    Participant

                      US Member

                      fleetwin, the ’67 80hp has conventional automotive battery-coil-points& condenser distributor.

                      #69778
                      need2fish
                      Participant

                        Consider using carb cleaner for checking the low pressure (intake) side of the engine.

                        Not only does carb cleaner have lubricant in it to counteract the effects of the solvent stripping the film of oil from bearing surfaces (which ether is really good at), it also has a much higher ignition temperature and will reduce the risk of the "bomb" that is created when ether quickly vaporizes and can be deadly when a leaking ignition component sets it off.

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