Home Forum Ask A Member 1957 Evinrude Big Twin 35 Skeg interferes with gears.

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  • #253016
    boscovius
    Participant

      Had it apart again today.  Made sure the snap ring was oriented properly and centered.  Taper matched with groove.  Applied the carbon paper and tightened it down.  Even cranked the shaft a little to get as much effect as possible.  No use.  I didn’t get any impression.  So much for that.  I also cleaned up the old skeg with the freeze crack and tried it out.  It didn’t work any better.  So I’m thinking this maybe isn’t a problem with the skeg after all.

      As far as the shift rod goes, mine is installed in the orientation depicted in the diagram mumbles posted above.  I have wondered if the pinion bearing race (part # 24 in the diagram) were not fully seated then there might exist the possibility that there is excess contact with the pinion and the gears.  Pretty sure that is what fleetwin is getting at in his post.  I will have a go at this next time I have it apart and see what the clearances look like.

      Maybe tomorrow.

      #253027
      fleetwin
      Participant

        US Member - 2 Years

        OK, so same results with old skeg…  Next try removing the pinion and reassembling.  Did you replace the pinion bearing?  If so, the new one may not be pressed in properly, it is kind of a strange design with that thrust bearing up inside.  You did replace the pinion gear, do you still have the old one?  Perhaps try reinstalling the old one, if it is not completely destroyed.  These gearcases all “look the same”, but there were subtle changes over the years, perhaps you have the wrong pinion.  Why is it that you replaced the pinion?  Did you replace the forward/reverse gears also?

        #253053
        boscovius
        Participant

          Today I tried seating the lower pinion bearing a little better.  I thought maybe I got a millimeter for my efforts, but no dice.  Gave necks’ suggestion a go.  That also failed to get me anywhere.

          I dug up the old pinion ( I don’t throw anything away, just ask my wife) and compared it to the new one.  They appear to be identical.  I can take them to work with me tonight and take some measurements.  Fortunately for me I work as a quality inspector and have access to many measuring tools.  I replaced the old pinion as just about everything in the old gear case was ruined from sitting for too many years with water in it.  I think all I was able to salvage was the shift lever and pin.   At one time I had sold this boat and motor to an acquaintance who promised me they were going to take care of it.  After painfully watching it sit outside neglected for a few years, I offered to buy it back.

          Going forward, if I find no difference in the pinions, then I should probably remove the pinion bearing, make sure there isn’t any debris or anything keeping it from fully seating, and reinstall it.  Just hope this doesn’t involve destroying any parts I’ve already replaced.  If that still doesn’t work, what are the odds of making a gasket that can take up the space and get everything to turn easily again?

          #253102
          boscovius
          Participant

            Caliper confirms what the eyes see.  No discernable difference in the pinions gears.  To be certain, I installed the old pinion gear and find the shaft still seizes up when the skeg is fastened on.  I think this pretty much eliminates every other option.  Knowing that the old skeg worked on this housing leads me to believe the problem isn’t with the skeg or the housing, but is likely the depth to which the lower pinion bearing is set.  Looks like I’ll be going in deep.  Wish me luck.

            #253103
            fleetwin
            Participant

              US Member - 2 Years

              Did you try assembling without the pinion in place?  If the prop shaft/driveshaft rotates freely then it is safe to assume that there is some sort of fit/backlash issue with the pinion and or gears.  Did I hear you say you replaced the forward and reverse gears as well?  Perhaps there is an issue with the fit of the gears to the pinion.  Are you sure you got the correct gears?  Again, these gearcases all seem pretty similar, but there were a few changes.  I guess at this point, if the old pinion/gears aren’t destroyed to the point of never fitting/turning, I would be inclined to assemble with the old gears and pinion…  I would compare the new and old parts very carefully.  perhaps there is an issue/defect.

              Sorry, you can not add any shims/gasket between the skeg and upper gearcase housing, that won’t work.

              #253113
              boscovius
              Participant

                “Sorry, you can not add any shims/gasket between the skeg and upper gearcase housing, that won’t work”

                Yeah, I was thinking about that.  Not a good idea.  Besides, I know this unit has worked in the past.  I looked the gears over, carefully comparing them to the diagram.  I cannot find anything to make me think they are wrong.  Perhaps tomorrow after work I can post pictures of the upper gear case with and without the prop shaft and gears.  Maybe someone with a sharp eye will see a detail I am missing.  Otherwise, I am inclined to think the pinion is being held too close to the gears and the compression is causing the interference.  One clue that I can share is that when I test fit, I tighten the screws down gradually and check for tension on the shaft as I go.  From a point of maybe slightly more than a 1/16 of an inch or so there is no resistance, but as I go tighter, the shaft begins to bind and I can feel the tension building and slipping as I turn the driveshaft.  It feels like the gears moving on the pinion.  But not smoothly.  Maybe I don’t have the right gears.  I am not able to locate those at the moment.  I may have let those go as they were trashed.  I have been told that those gears were intended to be a matched set.  I don’t see these gears offered on Marine Engine so I probably would have bought them off Ebay.  To the best of my knowledge, there is no part numbers etched on these gears, so I must have just gone with the info on the listing and hoped for the best.  It’s been years since I got these so my memory fails on the details.  Wondering how I might best see how well those teeth mesh?

                • This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by boscovius.
                #253134
                boscovius
                Participant

                  I have not tried assembling and rotating the prop shaft without the pinion in place.  I remember replacing the forward gear because the clutch dog and forward gear notches were worn out and the unit would no longer function in forward gear.  Am probably still running on the old reverse gear.   I used electrolysis in an attempt to save some of these parts.  I did get a new clutch dog and installed it.  I’ll try removing the pinion and see how things move.

                  #253169
                  boscovius
                  Participant

                    Just tried assembling without the pinion.  Shaft turns freely.

                    I’m running out of ideas.  Here’s some pictures.

                    Checked the seat of the pinion race with a flat edge.  Looks ok to me.   Should it go any deeper than that?

                    Lower-unit-1
                    Lower-Unit-2-2
                    Lower-Unit-3-2
                    Lower-Unit-4-2

                    • This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by boscovius.
                    • This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by boscovius.
                    • This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by boscovius.
                    #253197
                    boscovius
                    Participant

                      One more clue.  When I work this problem, I tighten the two screws closest to the output shaft.  I can take them down almost all the way and feel no difference in the freedom of rotation of the driveshaft.  Then I tighten down the single bolt at the opposite end and as I get close to bottoming out, that’s when the shaft seizes.

                      #253205
                      bobw
                      Participant

                        US Member - 1 Year (includes $3 online payment fee)

                        If it turns freely and doesn’t seize up until you tighten the single screw at the front of the case, I assume you’ve checked for any interference between the front bearing/race and their seat area in the upper/lower case?

                        Bob

                        1937 Champion D2C Deluxe Lite Twin
                        1954 Johnson CD-11
                        1957 Evinrude Fastwin 18
                        1958 Johnson QD-19
                        1958 Johnson FD-12
                        1959 Johnson QD-20

                        “Every 20 minute job is only a broken bolt away from a 3-day project.”
                        "Every time you remove a broken or seized bolt an angel gets his wings."

                        • This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by bobw.
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